Question about point motors


C

csxgandn

Member
I'm using Peco code 83 electro-frog turnouts on my layout. Now I'm giving some thought to what kind of point motors I want to use. I originally planned to keep it simple and use Peco PL-11 side mounted switch machines but I read they have been known to have reliability issues. This has me considering under the table switch machines like Tortoise, Peco PL-10 and Peco Smart Switch.

Here's the thing...I have 2" foam on top of 1/2" plywood and I'm wondering if any of you have some advise as to which one of these (or another one) is best to use in that scenario. I'm leaning toward the Peco Smart Swich because, as I understand it, it would not require the removal of the centering spring of the turnout and changes the frog polarity automatically. Problem is, I haven't seen anything on installation through 2" of foam. I don't know whether or not one needs to remove the centering spring when using the PL-10 or not.

Any comments or links would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
Try using a Google search for mounting the PECO machines and others in a foam. Should help you decide.

Greg
 
csxgandn said:
Tortoise, Peco PL-10 and Peco Smart Switch. and I'm wondering if any of you have some advise as to which one of these (or another one) is best to use in that scenario. I'm leaning toward the Peco Smart Swich because, as I understand it, it would not require the removal of the centering spring of the turnout and changes the frog polarity automatically. Problem is, I haven't seen anything on installation through 2" of foam. I don't know whether or not one needs to remove the centering spring when using the PL-10 or not.
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I have no advise. Just some observations. 1. Looking at their videos for the Smart Switch (yes, I know I normally don't look at videos but...) it does not look like they have removed the spring. 2. I have seen people use the PL-10 by carving out a cavity in the foam under the turnout for them (they attach to the track not the roadbed). 3. I do not remove the springs when using tortoise - I just make the tortoise exert enough pressure to overcome the spring. Sometimes this requires upgrading the gauge of piano wire on the tortoise, but neither have I ever tried to drive a turnout through 2" of foam. 4. Perhaps you could mount the Smart Switch motor under the foam, run a brass sleeve through the foam, and have the motor drive a "crank" of piano wire running through the brass sleeve to the turnout. Something similar to the picture below. One can see the brass sleeve top center. In this case the motor (this is a SwitchMaster brand) is driving two turnouts so it looks more complicated than it is. On the Peco smart switch one could throw away the PC board and put the piano wire directly into one of the holes on the motor's rotorblade. Obviously the further the distance from one end of the sleeve to the other would require the use of heavier wire to make up for the loss of torsion.
turnoutcrankssmall.JPG


I have 2" foam on top of 1/2" plywood
Click to expand...
Just curious - why did you do that?
 
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Thanks, guys! I posted this because I was having trouble finding info on the web that clarified how these things would work in or through foam. I did have better luck today. I think I'll try to attach PL-10s to the turnouts and recess them in the foam and see how that goes.

Horseman, I am a beginner and attached the foam to the plywood at that phase of construction because it seemed like an easy way to create both lower and higher terrain than track level. I wasn't thinking about point motors as I originally planned to use Atlas snap switches with the side mounted switch machines. As I remember, Atlas switches worked fine the last time I built a small layout (nearly 30 years ago!) but I quickly felt the need to replace them this time around.

Thanks for the help, guys.
 
On my layout I use servos to move the points. I have used this method through as much as 6 inches of plywood/foam/scenery.

Here's the view from beneath the layout:

Servo_1_Labels.jpg


On top of the layout, it looks like this:

turnout_linkage1_big.jpg


My layout is N-scale. I use Tam Valley Depot electronics to control the servos.

Not trying to talk you into my method -- just presenting a solution that works through several inches of plywood and foam.

- Jeff
 
Thanks for the photos, Jeff. I wasn't sure how feasible it would be to use something like that through so much foam...but you seem to have done it! Looks good.

I'm still leaning toward trying the PL 10. I know it isn't a slow motion machine but at least it isn't a surface mounted one (so that's an improvement, in my opinion, compared to the Atlas snap switches I originally planned on using).

When I first posted this I didn't know how the PL 10 worked, I thought it mounted under the layout like tortious and others. I believe I may have better luck (as a beginner) getting these to work well rather than trying to line up wire through foam.

Hopefully I can start a thread with some pics showing my progress...if I ever make any worth sharing :D

Paul
 
Hi Paul -

We look forward to seeing your progress. Be sure to take lots of photos!

- Jeff
 
Thanks, Jeff. I will. Remember to look for it in any part of this forum other than "Showin' Off" :D

I found the NCE Quick snap decoder for twin coil machines online. I'm thinking about operating at least some of my turnouts with it. Does anyone have any experience with this product...pros, cons?

Thanks
Paul
 
jdetray said:
Hi Paul -

I have no experience with that NCE product. However, I did notice that they have a similar product that controls four twin coil machines with one board. It appears to be less expensive than buying four separate Quick Snaps. Here it is:

https://www.ncedcc.com/online-store...pe-switch-machines-p38322143?forcescroll=true

- Jeff
Click to expand...

Thanks, Jeff. I did see that option as well. I figure, if I go this route, I will need one of those and one or two of the ones that only control a signal machine.
The other turnouts will be controlled "locally" at small control panels without decoders.

I think I'll grab the less expensive one and get one going and see how I like it first. I hope to get to the hobby store by the weekend.

Paul
 
Red Oak & Western said:
Just a suggestion: stay away from twin coil machines. They are old technology, noisy, and not very prototypical.
Click to expand...

Hi, Kevin. I remember the noise of the Atlas snap switches, they weren't quite, I agree. The truth is I don't mind the noise that much. Remember, I originally planned to use the snap switches on this layout until I ran into problems with locos and some cars shorting on the frog. The PECO maybe noisy but at least it's not a side mounted machine. That's more prototypical than I was willing to accept a month ago :D.

Is the snap effect and noise what you were referring to by not prototypical or is there more?

Thanks
Paul
 
Thanks for your help, guys. I got some PL-10s today and installed a couple. I can't wire them up because the NCE decoder was not in stock (I ordered two for now).

Thanks again. This forum is so helpful to a beginner like me!

-Paul
 
csxgandn said:
Is the snap effect and noise what you were referring to by not prototypical or is there more?
Click to expand...

Paul,

Its not so much the noise that isn't prototypical. I was referring to the fast transfer of the points from one side to the other. Both manual and pneumatic switches move the points relatively slowly.
 
Red Oak & Western said:
Paul,

Its not so much the noise that isn't prototypical. I was referring to the fast transfer of the points from one side to the other. Both manual and pneumatic switches move the points relatively slowly.
Click to expand...

You're absolutely right. I agree that the slow motion machines are more realistic in that way. The truth is I was less intimidated by installing the PL 10 after watching some YouTube videos and taking into account my 21/2" base. Truly, I am not bothered by the snap action. If the Atlas snap switches worked better I would still be using them and be perfectly happy so I see this choice as an improvement.

While I ended up going with a twin coil I do appreciate your input. On my personal list of things I want to include on my layout, slow motion point movement was never included.
Thanks
-Paul
 
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