Prototype Trivia Qustion


Iron Horseman

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
I think there must be an intersection between ALCO and James J Hill, baron of the railroads which chartered the SP & S. Found this article, otherwise drawing a blank:

Roller bearing, Alco.PNG
 
logandsawman said:
I think there must be an intersection between ALCO and James J Hill, baron of the railroads which chartered the SP & S.
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Your right on the intersection part. Take that as a hint. It DOES involve one of James Hill's other railroads. But also keep in mind that none of the other Hill lines CB&Q, C&S, FW&D, GN, Milwalkee, or NP followed the Alco path like the SP&S did.

And while Lionel has not made many SP&S painted locomotives, they have made at least one model that would be related, if not specifically significant, to this question (latest was 2011 catalog hmmm minimum 36" diameter curve). And a more distantly related loocomotive in the Lionmaster line, that I can't find the date on.
 
I know nothing about the SP&S, but the PRR and RDG had a close relationship with Baldwin. In more modern times, GE was the favorite of Railroad purchasing agents, because they offered financing at favorable rates. Helped gain them market share over EMD.

Boris
 
Bruette said:
I'll have to take a look in the online catalogs, mine are still in boxes.
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If you are really going to do that I'll give another hint. The specific locomotive in the 2011 catalog is S-scale.

I was hoping the Lionel hints would spark some interest, and at least guesses.
 
Boris said:
I know nothing about the SP&S, but the PRR and RDG had a close relationship with Baldwin.
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The other day someone posted a photo of the Penn Central merger where the executives were shanking hands across the touching loco platforms. I found it interesting hat the Pennsy loco was a Baldwin and the NYC loco was an Alco.
 
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Ok, put a few things together and found a connection with JP Morgan (GE) and John Stewart Kennedy (a partner of James J Hill), one of his original partners in forming the StPM & M out of the StP&P, his first railroad ventures.

JP Morgan being a chief financier of GE, a primary partner of ALCO until 1953. Most of this research thanks to Wickipedia
Hill, Kennedy intersection.PNG
Kennedy, Morgan intersection.PNG
Morgan--GE intersection.PNG
Alco--GE intersection.PNG
Alco--GEconnection.PNG



These excerpts from 4 articles. Kennedy and Morgan were in a Millionaires club together. Kennedy was Hills original partner in the acquisition of his early railroads. Morgan's GE components were suppliers of ALCO electrical equipment.
 
logandsawman said:
These excerpts from 4 articles. Kennedy and Morgan were in a Millionaires club together. Kennedy was Hills original partner in the acquisition of his early railroads. Morgan's GE components were suppliers of ALCO electrical equipment.
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Amazing piece of research. I am impressed. Many people don't realize the connection between Alco and GE. That is a nice general connection; however, this trivia question is looking for a much more specific item. And as implied by the Lionel hints, the situation I am looking for is because of two specific locomotives.

Later Alco's forced move from GE to Westinghouse components was a contributing factor to their demise (not to mention the huge factor of additional direct competition).
 
I think I found the locomotive, but I still have no idea!
Lionel/American Flyer - Spokane Portland & Seattle 4-6-6-4 Challenger - 6-48094
1550922791616.png
 
Your honor I appreciate the lead, but could you draw me a map? :)

That is a pretty model and a Legacy locomotive with all kinds of "bells & whistles" to boot!
 
Bruette said:
Your honor I appreciate the lead, but could you draw me a map?
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The LionMaster model would be the next piece of the map. And, ... aught oh... But, looking for another clue I find I've errored. It isn't a former life it is a future life. And with this error, I'll just go straight to the story. I should have looked up the exact reference before I posted this, as I cannot find it. I think it is in the book Northern Pacific Super Steam Era by Frey and Schrenk which is missing from my book shelf?!?

The SP&S was owned jointly by the GN and NP. For decades the SP&S got only hand me down, basically worn out and/or nearly obsolete locos from those two roads. In 1937 things changed. The NP was ordering a new class of locomotive designated as Z-6, and the SP&S got to order new locomotives on that same order. They got brand new challengers. They were so impressed with the performance of these locomotives from Alco that they became faithful Alco customers right up to the end.

My error was that I thought the SP&S were hand me downed the first two nearly new challengers (#4000 and 4001) from GN (who hated them) and that had started the trend. oops.
 
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I don't have catalogs dating that far back and Lionel's online catalogs only go back to 2011
 
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