Problem with PSX-1 tripping on auto reverse sections Z21 Controller


gjohnston

gjohnston

Slow Learner
Hi all,

I purchased and installed two PSX-AR auto reverse unit on my layout controlled with my Z21. They worked great...... until I installed the PSX-1 circuit breaker on the layout. With the PSX-1 installed the locos pause entering or exiting the reversing sections or stall altogether as the PSX-1 trips, resets or attempts to reset. Without the PSX-1 everything runs great. I contacted support at Tony's Trains Exchange and Erik had me follow the process to check the PSX-1 unit to see if is passes an operational test here: https://tonystrains.com/psx-test/
which it did. I am waiting on further input from Erik at Tony's Train Exchange.

Has anyone had any experience with a problem like this? I am about ready to send the PSX-1 back for a refund and run the layout relying on the breaker that is built into the Z21, which has been working great.

Thanks for any help you may be able to give on this issue.
 
Hi,

The only reason for PSX units is to break a layout into separate power districts. If you only have one PSX you are simply duplicating the functionality built into the Z21.

In any case were you feeding the PSX-AR units from the PSX unit? The PSX-AR also perform the function of a plain PSX unit so cascading them serves no function.

It also might just be the cause of your problem - but that is just a guess.

Frederick
 
Hi Frederick,

I realize now that the PSX-1 does attempt to duplicate the circuit breaker in the Z21. I had been under the impression that it is a "best practice" to have a circuit breaker just down stream of the control unit. But for whatever reason this isn't working in my case.

I am feeding the both PSX-AR units from the main power bus lines that feeds the track. The track reversing sections are separated from the main lines by plastic spacers on both rails at each end of the reversing sections. These rails are powered via the output side of the PSX-ARs.

Thanks for the input. I am 90% sure at this point I will be returning the unit.
 
gjohnston said:
Hi Frederick,


I am feeding the both PSX-AR units from the main power bus lines that feeds the track. The track reversing sections are separated from the main lines by plastic spacers on both rails at each end of the reversing sections. These rails are powered via the output side of the PSX-ARs.
Click to expand...

Perhaps I wasn't clear - are the PSX-AR units getting their power, either directly or indirectly, from the output of the PSX unit?

Frederick
 
Yes indirectly. The PSX-1 is connected to the main line output of the Z21. Then the PSX-1 Feeds the main track bus wires. The PSX-ARs get their power from the main bus wire. The reverse loops get their power from the PSX-ARs via feeder wires.

Here is my attempt to show this in a diagram.

Reverse loop wiring.jpg
 
gjohnston said:
Yes indirectly. The PSX-1 is connected to the main line output of the Z21. Then the PSX-1 Feeds the main track bus wires. The PSX-ARs get their power from the main bus wire. The reverse loops get their power from the PSX-ARs via feeder wires.

Here is my attempt to show this in a diagram.

View attachment 61590
Click to expand...

Well if you are the curious type you might try connecting the PSX-AR units directly to the Z21 output and see if that solves the problem.

I understand that you may be getting rid of the PSX unit but it would be interesting to know if that change did solve the problem.

Frederick
 
Frederick,

I was able to connect one of the PSX-ARs directly to the output of the Z21 and attempt to pass the loco over the reversing section. The result however was the same. The PSX-1 tripped the loco stalled and the PSX-1 reset and the loco jerked ahead. Eric, the tech from Tony's Trains suggested I try this:

I think by delaying the reaction time of the PSX-1 relative to the PSX-AR will resolve the issue. Program the PSX-1 adjacent to the PSX-AR as follows:

  1. Program cv55=1 [implements 3ms delay]
  2. Test to see if locomotive hesitates at PSX/PSX-AR boundry
  3. If hesitation persists, program cv65=160 [max value 255]
  4. Test again
Let me know if this works.

However, you can only program the CVs on the main, not on the program track outputs of the Z21. The Z21 will only allow you to do this if the device you are programming is compatible with Railcom. So I am unable to make these programming changes. So I will be sending the unit back. Not really much of a problem as the PSX-ARs work great without the PSX-1.
 
Hi Greg,

I cannot check now but the Z21 should be able to program on the main, regardless of RailCom, as the capability is part of the DCC specs.

Frederick
 
fcwilt said:
Hi Greg,

I cannot check now but the Z21 should be able to program on the main, regardless of RailCom, as the capability is part of the DCC specs.

Frederick
Click to expand...

I gave it a look. Guess I couldn't figure it out. If you can show me how I will try again.
 
gjohnston said:
I gave it a look. Guess I couldn't figure it out. If you can show me how I will try again.
Click to expand...

I cannot get to my Z21 right now but check page 44 of the user manual.

That said, I used JMRI Decoder Pro for my programming and have never actually used the Z21 app except to take a quick look at it.

Frederick
 
Frederick,

I was able to program CV 55=1 on the PSX-1 with the Z21 in POM mode. Whoo hoo!! And behold it worked!!! No more stalling or tripping the breaker when crossing into reversing sections. I was incorrect that railcom was needed to program on the main. It is only needed to read the current cv already programmed.


Thanks for staying with me on this. I am going to keep the PSX-1 as an extra precaution and not rely on only on the Z21 internal breaker.
 
Hi Greg,

Glad to hear you got it working.

When using the programming track you can read CV values even without RailCom. But to read CV values on the main you need RailCom, though there are some sound equipped locos with decoders that can speak CV values.

Frederick
 
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