One thing I've noticed since returning to the hobby is that prices of Athearn and Proto 2000 locomotives have doubled since 1996. Athearn took shells from Rail Power Products, dressed them up a little, threw in a DCC Plug, and put plastic railings on them. I realize that since being bought out by Tower Hobbies this has something to do with it, as when I was in the business Tower Hobbies was one of the more high priced distributors. The Life Like Proto 2000 series is nothing more than a copy of Athearn, their truck sideframes even interchange. Walthers is the puppeteer holding the stings on Proto 2000 now, so I know why they are pricey. Not all of us are into DCC, but are made to pay higher prices because of the option to "plug in". My last layout had a mainline of over 200 feet, and I had no problem with walk around throttles and blocks, and I will build my new layout with the same setup...I figure why not use what I already have. Athearn locomotives used to be the inexpensive way to build up a fleet of motive power, and now it appears that Bachmann has replaced them as the "poor mans choice".
Pricey Power
- Thread starter River Run
- Start date
CanuckMark
Member
It's always funny to see the prices printed on the end of the Athearn BB kits - $4.50 for a passenger car, I wish!
Mark
Mark
HaggisKennedy
Coal Shoveler
The biggest complaint was against the Proto ones, especially the P1K locos. You used to be able to get a P1K F-3 loco for about $30, now Walthers wants up to $90 for the same thing.
I never really heard the same amount of outrage for the P2K locos, but I'm sure there were complaints.
Kennedy
I never really heard the same amount of outrage for the P2K locos, but I'm sure there were complaints.
Kennedy
Railphotog
Railroad Photographer
Not defending the price increases, but I think there may be a few more improvements in the Athearn diesels, such as new motors and drivetrains, separately applied details, see- through grilles, etc. They are a long way from the Blue Box models, with or without DCC. And Athearn is owned by Horizon Hobbies, perhaps they used to be Tower Hobbies?
martin_lumber
Air Horn Guy
I have to dissagree with you in more than one way.
First of all, Athearn was not bought by Tower Hobbies; rather Horizon Hobbies.
Athearn models (RTR, mind you) are not the BB kits of the past. I realize that some of the Athearn RTR models are just painted and assembled BB kits. But, the RPP models are way different.
The RPP shell is basicly a raw shell, onto which you put details. The Athearn models are powered, have directional lighting, details, grab irons, handrails, and paint. They can not compare with the RPP kits at all.
I think that the price you pay is reasonable. I don't buy direct from the manufacturer, and if you do, it's your own money you are wasting. I buy off of eBay, MB Klein, and LHSs, which offer discounts ranging from 5% off to 60% off.
While we are at butchering, why not butcher Atlas? They are selling DC locos for $150 a pop, far greater than P2K and Athearn.
Bachmann is not the cheapest mfgr either, and their models are DCC equiped.
I thought the same thing about DCC about 5 months ago, but I then realized what those boards can do for you. You can have directional lighting, add auxillary lighting such as ditch lights or a beacon, and yes, switch to DCC. Now that I got a free model railroad that comes DCC equiped, I am glad that the new models have this.
Proto 2000 - Yes, the first models were basicly a 'suped' up Athearn engine. However, they are smoother than a Athearn, and come with sound if you choose that choice. The interchangibility? There's nothing wrong with that. I find it much easier to replace parts on a P2K model, since Athearn parts can be had anywhere, whereas P2K parts are non-existant.
Even though P2K makes some of the same locos as Athearn, the paint schemes and numbers are different, as well as some of the details.
In reply to the 3rd post: The old P1K A-B sets were $100. The new ones are $144. But...http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-31423 they are on sale from anywhere between $66 and $100 for the sets.
You people have to realize that this isn't a cheap hobby. It takes money to invest in locomotives, and you have to look around for deals instead of hitting the "Pre-Order Now" button and blowing off your wallet...
Phil
First of all, Athearn was not bought by Tower Hobbies; rather Horizon Hobbies.
Athearn models (RTR, mind you) are not the BB kits of the past. I realize that some of the Athearn RTR models are just painted and assembled BB kits. But, the RPP models are way different.
The RPP shell is basicly a raw shell, onto which you put details. The Athearn models are powered, have directional lighting, details, grab irons, handrails, and paint. They can not compare with the RPP kits at all.
I think that the price you pay is reasonable. I don't buy direct from the manufacturer, and if you do, it's your own money you are wasting. I buy off of eBay, MB Klein, and LHSs, which offer discounts ranging from 5% off to 60% off.
While we are at butchering, why not butcher Atlas? They are selling DC locos for $150 a pop, far greater than P2K and Athearn.
Bachmann is not the cheapest mfgr either, and their models are DCC equiped.
I thought the same thing about DCC about 5 months ago, but I then realized what those boards can do for you. You can have directional lighting, add auxillary lighting such as ditch lights or a beacon, and yes, switch to DCC. Now that I got a free model railroad that comes DCC equiped, I am glad that the new models have this.
Proto 2000 - Yes, the first models were basicly a 'suped' up Athearn engine. However, they are smoother than a Athearn, and come with sound if you choose that choice. The interchangibility? There's nothing wrong with that. I find it much easier to replace parts on a P2K model, since Athearn parts can be had anywhere, whereas P2K parts are non-existant.
Even though P2K makes some of the same locos as Athearn, the paint schemes and numbers are different, as well as some of the details.
In reply to the 3rd post: The old P1K A-B sets were $100. The new ones are $144. But...http://www.walthers.com/exec/productinfo/920-31423 they are on sale from anywhere between $66 and $100 for the sets.
You people have to realize that this isn't a cheap hobby. It takes money to invest in locomotives, and you have to look around for deals instead of hitting the "Pre-Order Now" button and blowing off your wallet...
Phil
The nice thing about Athearn BB locomotives is that they are still available - in profusion. Just check e-bay and there are usually hundreds of different models available for $10-$25. It's not as cheap as when they first sold at $9.99 but they are still a pretty good deal.
There are two main reasons why model prices in general (not just locomotives) have risen in price. The first is oil. All that plastic is made from oil and you can't buy a barrel of oil today for what you could in 1996.
The second is of our own making. Model railroaders now want RTR models that have a level of detail comparable to many brass locomotives of 20 years ago. The model has to be dead on accurate or the model railroad magazines will flay them alive. On top of that, we want the locomotive to run smooth as silk, have good pulling power, and be able to run on DC or DCC with the option to go to DCC.
None of this takes into account general inflation. That $10 Athearn BB engine made in 1970 would cost about $54 today with no improvements of any kind, just the increased costs of production. Given the fact I can buy a Bachmann GP-35 with better detail and than any Athearn BB, runs better than any BB Athearn, comes with DCC already installed, and I can get one for forty of today's dollars, I'm not dissatisfied.
There are two main reasons why model prices in general (not just locomotives) have risen in price. The first is oil. All that plastic is made from oil and you can't buy a barrel of oil today for what you could in 1996.
The second is of our own making. Model railroaders now want RTR models that have a level of detail comparable to many brass locomotives of 20 years ago. The model has to be dead on accurate or the model railroad magazines will flay them alive. On top of that, we want the locomotive to run smooth as silk, have good pulling power, and be able to run on DC or DCC with the option to go to DCC.
None of this takes into account general inflation. That $10 Athearn BB engine made in 1970 would cost about $54 today with no improvements of any kind, just the increased costs of production. Given the fact I can buy a Bachmann GP-35 with better detail and than any Athearn BB, runs better than any BB Athearn, comes with DCC already installed, and I can get one for forty of today's dollars, I'm not dissatisfied.
jbaakko
Diesel Detail Freak
Not sure about that. The local LHS buys Athearn & Roundhouse from Horizon. Tower just sells them, like any other retailer.
Personally, I like the RTR stuff, but I avoid it at the same time, as I'm a detail freak, I figure why buy something thats detailed incorrectly, when I can get one thats not detailed at all. If its RTR, undec, I like it though.
Rotorranch
MRR Refugee
Tower does not sell Athearn anymore. Tower is owned by Great Planes Dist.
Athearn is owned and distributed exclusively by Horizon Hobby.
Rotor
Athearn is owned and distributed exclusively by Horizon Hobby.
Rotor
Railphotog
Railroad Photographer
Out of curiosity, what magazines do that? They (especially MR) seem to love everything produced, especially by Walthers, and rarely say anything much in a negative vein. Can't PO their advertisers!
Just curious!
Bob,
I tend to agree that the major mags end to give reviews pretty delicate treatment. Model Railway News and some of the other smaller magazines are much more blunt in their assesments. However, MR, in particular, seems to love to rivet count. The rest of the engine may be crap they'll let you know right quick if a truck wheelbase is .0001 mm's too long or the the exhaust stack is located .0001 mm's too far back from the cab. That's what I meant by being dead on accurate, not that the locomotive itself is either good or bad.
I tend to agree that the major mags end to give reviews pretty delicate treatment. Model Railway News and some of the other smaller magazines are much more blunt in their assesments. However, MR, in particular, seems to love to rivet count. The rest of the engine may be crap they'll let you know right quick if a truck wheelbase is .0001 mm's too long or the the exhaust stack is located .0001 mm's too far back from the cab. That's what I meant by being dead on accurate, not that the locomotive itself is either good or bad.
Squidbait
Recovering ALCo-holic
One thing to remember is that the majority of the Athearn BB locos had been around since the '70s. No new tooling for the dies, none required. The initial investment for the tooling had long-since been paid for, and so they could be offered at a low price.
The newer units required new/re-tooling, which costs $$$ (yes, even if it's done in China!). Everything costs more today than it did 30 years ago (or even 20 or 10 years ago), so re-tooling or creating new tooling is more expensive, and so new models are more expensive.
As mentioned, Athearn has bought up RPP's shells, and is now able to offer more detailled, more accurate models of several prototypes. Coupled with this is the addition of more scale handrails, grabs and fans. These all add to the price.
Also, people are willing to pay more for RTR models that require no assembly. We've done it to ourselves as far as pricing goes, by willingly paying (too much, IMHO in many cases) for RTR models. All people had to do was say "Nice try, but I'll come back when you've got a price that's reasonable". Instead, people threw down their money hand over fist to get these models. Once the pattern's set, it's impossible to break.
Unfortunately in the last 20 years, we've seen a huge rise in the number of people with more money than willpower.
The newer units required new/re-tooling, which costs $$$ (yes, even if it's done in China!). Everything costs more today than it did 30 years ago (or even 20 or 10 years ago), so re-tooling or creating new tooling is more expensive, and so new models are more expensive.
As mentioned, Athearn has bought up RPP's shells, and is now able to offer more detailled, more accurate models of several prototypes. Coupled with this is the addition of more scale handrails, grabs and fans. These all add to the price.
Also, people are willing to pay more for RTR models that require no assembly. We've done it to ourselves as far as pricing goes, by willingly paying (too much, IMHO in many cases) for RTR models. All people had to do was say "Nice try, but I'll come back when you've got a price that's reasonable". Instead, people threw down their money hand over fist to get these models. Once the pattern's set, it's impossible to break.
Unfortunately in the last 20 years, we've seen a huge rise in the number of people with more money than willpower.
OldGettysk
Running the MC & Buffalo
Just a quick note about Model Railroad Mags. You usually don't bite the hand that feeds you .
jbaakko
Diesel Detail Freak
Very true, but some people want to know this. My point here, just because you could care less, someone else might want to know.
I seem to remember a while back we had a magazine discussion and someone expressed their displeasure with MR's scratch building a brass steam locomotive series. I just got done with, and I thourghly enjoyed reading it.
I dunno why we're on this topic... */End off topic/*
Josh, it's not off-topic. I stated one of the reasons for models costing more now is that they have to do a better job gettting the dimensions correct or they will get flayed alive in reviews. My answer was to Bob's question, clarifying that MR, in particular, is known for rivet counting. I don't recall saying I could care or care less, only that this quest for absolute prototype fidelity is one of the contributors to increasing costs.
HaggisKennedy
Coal Shoveler
The main reason why I'm back into MRR now is because I'm still gainfully employed, and can afford the stuff. Retirement is a bit aways yet, but that day is coming, and starting out then is going to be a financial burden. I'm learning and collecting now, so that I won't waste the limited funds on mistakes I know I'm going to make when I can least afford it.
Kennedy
Kennedy
mikeingeorgia
New Member
I did something with my train collection just the opposite of what the real railroads do with their engines. They usually replace theirs 2 new for 3 old. They get more power, and less fuel consumption and better reliability, not to mention fewer engines to maintain. I had a fleet of relatively inexpensive Athearn BB engines until I got 1 rather expensive Broadway Limited M1a's. At which point I put all my Athearns on eBay and replaced them about 5 to 1 with more Broadway Limited engines. 
