Please help a newbie. I know what I want, just don't know "how."


C

cmbconcretefire

New Member
Hi guys. I am 42. I know exactly what I am looking for....only I have no idea how to go about doing it. This will be in N scale. Please see picture below.

Let me tell you a little about myself so you get a feel for what kind of hobbyist I am when it comes to trains. I love them. I don't know why. :D
I like to watch them run. That's it. I have zero to very little desire to build a "scene" or even a "theme" really. I definitely do not care anything about scenery or building an exact replica of XYZ train from XYZ year....... I just like to watch them run. No interest at all of joining a group of guys or gals at the hobby club to run trains. I just want to see a train running back and forth on my wall.

So here's what I'm thinking. I want to build a point to point / or / and an automatic reversing track layout around the middle of my living room wall. When I say middle, I mean about 4 ft from the floor. It will go around some corners of course but basically I want it to start at one end, run the length of the track, then when it reaches the end, I want it to auto reverse and go back to where it came from.

There are at least 3 problems with this:
1) The length of the whole track will be about 36 ft, give or take 3 or 5 feet. I don't know if one "controller" will be enough to provide enough power. So the electrical issue (??) is part of my problem. Will I need more than one controller? A power booster somewhere along the layout?

2) I don't know what "gizmos" I need to make the train slow down as it gets to the end before it smashes into the "end of the line." And, I don't know what "gizmos" I need to make it auto reverse direction once it reaches the end of the line. Obviously, I will need those gizmos on each end of the track.

3) I would really like it if I could have two Engines on each end of the SINGLE TRAIN. I want to be very clear about this because it could be confusing. I have no interest in running two separate TRAINS on a single track. What I mean is.....Imagine the train running from right to left. On the far right you would have the Engine that pulls the whole train, followed by the normal cars. Traditionally, at the end of the normal cars you would have a caboose. Ok..instead of having a caboose, I would like to have another engine, but it would still be hooked up to all the other cars and would be pulled by the Engine in the front.

Why?

Because once the traditional looking train going from right to left reaches the end of the line and reverses to go back, it's going to look pretty stupid to see a train run backwards. If I had an engine on each end, it would appear the train is being pulled in the correct direction (forward) no matter which way it is running. (IE right to left OR left to right) Either way, there would be an engine at the "front."

I can do a rough diagram here: (<<<) denotes cars and direction......such as : Engine<<<<<<<<Engine. Then when it reverses: Engine>>>>>>Engine.

I would love it if BOTH engines actually functioned. I imagine I could put a "dummy" engine on one end which mechanically would not actually function, but then that would mean the real engine is either going forward (pulling) or going backwards (pushing) I am not fond of this idea. I would like to have two engines that actually function mechanically. So engine (A) would pull the train around the track to the final destination, and then it would reverse course where Engine (B) on the other end would pull the train back around to the starting point. Rinse, repeat.

The picture will not be my exact layout, but the point is, there will be curves, and the track will never "loop" or connect.
Also, I would really like the engines to make noise. I'm thinking Diesel engines is probably what I am going to go with, so some diesel engine sounds would be a nice touch. HOWEVER, I would like to have the option of turning the sound/s off and just watching the train run back and forth along my wall.

Mouthful I know, but please help. Thank you so much. And YES, I have ruled out HO scale. It's too big for my liking on this particular project. And please remember, I am as newbie as it gets, but I know what I want in my head.
poorb1.gif
 
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Okay, wow ah where to start? First of all, everything you want can be done. That's the easy bit out of the road, now to answer your individual questions:

1. You will only need ONE controller, regardless of how long your track work is. What you would need to do is run two wires (Main Bus Wires + & - ) from your System/Power Source the length of your layout and attach feeder wires from those Main Wires to your track/rails. It is recommended that you have feeders every 3' along your track.

2. You can buy an 'Auto Reverse System' that will handle the auto reversing of your train. For example Digitrax sells them along with most other DCC System manufacturers. How they connect or work, I will leave to those who know.

3. You can also have an engine at both ends of the train. How that works is beyond me, however it can be done.

Not much input sorry, but at least now you know what you want can be achieved and have an answer to your power question.
 
One consideration for the two-engine operation you describe is that the engines must be well-matched so that they run at the same speed with respect to one another. If you purchase two identical engines from the same manufacturer, their speeds may be close enough.

For the "back and forth" action, you will need a way to detect when the train has reached the end of the run in each direction, at which point, the power polarity must be reversed so that the train stops and begins moving in the opposite direction. There are products designed to do exactly this. One solution comes from Azatrax. They make something called the PFRR Back-and-Forth Controller. They also make train detectors.

You will also need a model railroad power pack to control the speed of the train and provide power for the items above.

I have no experience with any of the Azatrax products. I've included the links above merely as one example of the sort of electronics you will need. There may be better solutions available, and if so I hope other forums members will respond with information about them.

You may receive questions about whether you will really be satisfied watching a train travel endlessly back and forth across your layout. It's a legitimate question, but I long ago concluded that whatever type of model railroad makes you happy is the right one for you!

- Jeff
 
Welcome to the forums, glad to have you onboard!

jdetray said:
...
You may receive questions about whether you will really be satisfied watching a train travel endlessly back and forth across your layout. It's a legitimate question, but I long ago concluded that whatever type of model railroad makes you happy is the right one for you!
- Jeff
Click to expand...
Now that is some fantastic advice!


I am one who loves to watch a train run so I can relate to what you are looking for in your railroad.

I don't have the expertise to tell you how to make what your looking to do work, but be patient because someone will.

One possibility to avoid having trouble with matching locomotive speeds would be to use a Non-powered (dummy) locomotive at one end of your train. I have a Bachmann Acela set that comes with a powered and non-powered locomotive. http://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Bachmann-HO-01204-Acela-Express-Set-p/bac-01204.htm

Are you looking to run freight or passenger trains?

My layout is very simple, but I keep it entertaining, to me anyway, by changing trains, something to think about.

You can achieve your goals and if I had more time I would do some research to tell you just what you need, but with Christmas fast approaching and 2 grandsons to spoil I'm up against the clock/calendar (Lionel calendar that is!)

Another thing to consider is that this won't be very cheap like a $100 Ready to Run set, but it can be done. I would guess for about $500 all in and could be more depending on your choice of manufacturers, but that is purely speculation.

Thanks for sharing your hobby with us!
 
Welcome to the forum and it is great that you know exactly what you want. I am sure this can be done but others here are better equipped to answer that question (how).

I get what you want and it is appealing to me.

My previous layout was a track that went in an oval around the room at 6.5 feet above the ground, it was 11 x 20 so just about as big as yours and I could watch some pretty long stuff go around. Because I wanted 30" radius curves I suspended it from the ceiling with nylon threads and we were renting so I didn't want shelf bracket marks on the walls. When we moved, I unscrewed the hooks from the ceiling and put a little spackle in the holes and you can't even tell there was a train there.

The point is, where there is a will there is a way. Have fun. lasm
 
I may have read it wrong are you wanting the loco that's in trail to shut down and be pull. I dummy loco would not look any differnt than a power in motion. the only way to tell will be your train will be bunched up more being pusshed.
 
Thank you for posting the Bachman product..... I have seen that, but please understand as a newbie I don't know quite what the point of that "system" is? I mean as a newbie the box looks confusing. I've actually had the box in my hands. It doesn't appear to come with any cars yet the cover leads you to believe that it does.

On the other hand, if these are just the "ends" so to speak, and this is what I need as far as my "ends of the track" are concerned, then that makes sense.

Someone else asked me about passenger or freight cars as to my flavor. I'd like to have both, but not running at the same time. I'd like to have both just to switch it up every now and then. (the look I mean) I think initially I would go with freight.

Someone else mentioned or asked if I would truly be happy just watching the train go back and forth. The answer is a definitive YES. I have zero desire to sit for hours and make X train run into Y station and pick up ABC cargo, and then run it over ABC station, change loco's and keep schedules etc.... Trust me, I do not have the patience for that. No desire whatsoever for that. However, I understand there are many people on here who LOVE THAT. All I can say to that is God bless you. I respect that. Different strokes and all.......

I'm really not liking the idea of a "dummy" loco for looks. I guess I'm concerned with wear and tear with just one loco mechanically going forward and backwards all the time. (Am I over thinking this?) Just seems logical to me that only one functioning loco would not last very long repeatedly going forward and backwards. Again, am I over thinking that part?

To the others that posted links and ideas, thank you, and keep those ideas coming. I do appreciate it.
 
Hey guys, I found this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=102KVE9LI3Y Yes, that's pretty much what I'm looking for as far as back and forth. I think everyone understands that now but there is something in that video that I DO NOT WANT. (that's the real reason I posted the video, to show you what I don't want)

See how it just "starts" and "stops?" ..... a real train doesn't do that. Not a diesel loco with freight anyway. At the start I would like for the train to start off slowly and gradually gain speed to a certain "top speed" (whatever I decide that should be) and then as it approaches the end of the line it should slow down and come to a nice slow stop before reversing. THAT is realistic. Can that be done?
 
A new question..... I see the Bachman "auto reversing" EZ track and then I see the bachman regular track. (but on the box it doesn't say anything about auto reversing) My question is does my entire layout have to be "auto reversing" track? Or just the ends? In other words, can I just put regular track in between the two auto reversing ends? Because those auto reversing tracks are expensive. Lol. The regular track is priced more reasonable.
 
cmbconcretefire: You might want to include your name so we can greet you properly!

The point of the Bachmann system appears to be to do exactly what you want. That is, run a train from one end of a point-to-point layout, then back again, and repeat continuously for as long as you leave the power turned on.

The Bachmann system does not come with any engines or cars, and it does not include much track -- only a couple of feet -- but it includes what you call the "ends" that create the back and forth action. You would have to purchase a bunch of additional E-Z Track pieces to make the 36-foot run that you desire. As a rough estimate, you'll need $150-$200 of additional E-Z Track pieces.

Bachmann engines are around $50-$60 each. You don't need the more expensive DCC engines for your project. Bachmann freight cars are $20-$30 each. Bachmann passenger cars are more expensive. HOWEVER, you need not use Bachmann engines or cars. Other brands will work fine and may be less expensive if you shop around.

There may be some marginal benefit to using two engines instead one with regard to wear and tear, but I would not consider this a major concern.

It would be helpful if someone who has actually used the Bachmann or Azatrax systems would add their comments to this thread. So far we are all taking our best, educated guesses about these two systems, but we need someone with firsthand experience.

By the way, here are the instructions for the Bachmann N-scale auto-reversing system:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/N_Scale_Reversing_Track_Instructions.pdf

- Jeff
 
jdetray said:
cmbconcretefire: You might want to include your name so we can greet you properly!

The point of the Bachmann system appears to be to do exactly what you want. That is, run a train from one end of a point-to-point layout, then back again, and repeat continuously for as long as you leave the power turned on.

The Bachmann system does not come with any engines or cars, and it does not include much track -- only a couple of feet -- but it includes what you call the "ends" that create the back and forth action. You would have to purchase a bunch of additional E-Z Track pieces to make the 36-foot run that you desire. As a rough estimate, you'll need $150-$200 of additional E-Z Track pieces.

Bachmann engines are around $50-$60 each. You don't need the more expensive DCC engines for your project. Bachmann freight cars are $20-$30 each. Bachmann passenger cars are more expensive. HOWEVER, you need not use Bachmann engines or cars. Other brands will work fine and may be less expensive if you shop around.

There may be some marginal benefit to using two engines instead one with regard to wear and tear, but I would not consider this a major concern.

It would be helpful if someone who has actually used the Bachmann or Azatrax systems would add their comments to this thread. So far we are all taking our best, educated guesses about these two systems, but we need someone with firsthand experience.

By the way, here are the instructions for the Bachmann N-scale auto-reversing system:
http://www.bachmanntrains.com/home-usa/dwg/dwgs/N_Scale_Reversing_Track_Instructions.pdf

- Jeff
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Hi Jeff, I'm sorry....My name is Mike. I highlighted part of your quote because I would like clarification if you can provide it. I understand what you are saying about the Bachman product being the "end of track" pieces. That track is labeled "auto reversing track."

Now forget about that product for a moment and just look up Bachman track. From what I have seen you can buy curves or straight pieces and they usually come 6 pieces of track per package. This is the important part: > Some are labeled "auto reversing track", and some are not. (meaning they are just regular tack.) (and far less expensive)

Million dollar question: Does the ENTIRE LENGTH of my track need to be auto reversing track....or just the ends? It seems to me that the track in the middle so to speak ought not to matter. I will try to diagram my thoughts here : Start of track (auto reversing end pieces) >>>>>>>>>>>(regular track) End of track (auto reversing track.) I hope that makes sense.

If it all has to be auto reversing track, it's going to get real expensive, real fast.
 
Nevermind.....I read the instructions: NOTE: The E-Z Track® in this set is equipped with auto-reversing circuitry and is not compatible withBachmann’s other N Scale E-Z Track® products. To expand this set, you must only use auto-reversing
E-Z Track® items. :mad:
 
cmbconcretefire said:
See how it just "starts" and "stops?" ..... a real train doesn't do that. Not a diesel loco with freight anyway. At the start I would like for the train to start off slowly and gradually gain speed to a certain "top speed" (whatever I decide that should be) and then as it approaches the end of the line it should slow down and come to a nice slow stop before reversing. THAT is realistic. Can that be done?
Click to expand...
A real train does not cycle endlessly back and forth between two endpoints, either. So if it's realism you want, you may want to reconsider your entire concept. As I said before, you need to create a layout that makes you happy, but what you have described is not very realistic.

Having said that, I think the Azatrax system I mentioned in post #3 can do what you want. Their web site says "Acceleration and braking effect is user adjustable." I believe that means the train will gradually build up speed and gradually slow down as it shuttles back and forth between the two endpoints. An advantage of the Azatrax system is that it does not require special track. Any N-scale track should work.

- Jeff
 
DCC Train Shuttle by Tam Valley Depot

I would use DCC and this product.

DCC Train Shuttle by Tam Valley Depot

Use the Train Shuttle to automatically run a train back and forth for demos, breaking in locomotives or just for fun. Also makes a really simple way to run a DCC locomotive with its speed and direction controls.

The train shuttle is a DCC command station/throttle with built-in detectors that can automatically reverse direction and simulate a station stop. It works with any locomotive with the address range 1-99. No need to program the locomotive - just take it out of the box and put it on the track.

take care ,,, ken
 
Consider that a point-to-point layout has a little issue. The longer the train is the less it can move to the extreme of a very long train that sits from end to end. It is like a caged lion. Once up to speed it has to slow to a stop.

If you consider a 'continuous loop arrangement every car and loco can experience every point on the layout. Not so with a point-to-point layout.
 
Another possibility, if you aren't absolutely wedded to the point-to-point reversing idea, would be to create a second level. Let the track climb up a shallow ramp, and keep the grade under 3%. Instead of ending where the stub ends now, at this higher elevation the track could instead make an S-curve back to connect to the other high stub end. Keep the two levels just far enough apart to allow train operation, and you could run continuously in either direction. Just an option. Welcome to the forum.
Hugs,
Diane
 
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