Peco Electrogrog and switch machines?


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csxgandn

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I'm considering changing my Atlas snap switches for Peco #5 Electrofrog. Now would be the time while it would still be easy to change the track plan.

The Peco look better and from what I understand from several websites and YouTube videos more reliable and longer lasting. For all of these reasons I may make the change.

Although I think I understand how to modify a Peco Electrofrog to be "DCC friendly" one thing is unclear:

It seems the turnout will not change polarity ("polarity" may be the wrong word dealing with AC, electricity isn't my thing) in the frog without the use of a switch machine. I'm wondering if this is the case because I would like to lay a lot of track and throw turnouts by hand until I can install switch machines later but if I go this route it seems I may have to install switch machines as I go to. Am I right about that?

Thanks, guys
 
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Caboose Hobbies make ground throws to suit Peco Electrofrog turnouts, suitable for DCC operation. The 220S model has a built in SPDT switch for changing the polarity of the frog. It is in kit form so assembly required. Scroll down the page till you see "Ground Throws With Contact" The instructions for assembly and wiring are in underlined links above the illustration.
http://www.cabooseind.com/product-info

They are available also , discounted, from modeltrainstuff.com
https://www.modeltrainstuff.com/Caboose-Industries-HO-N-Ground-Throw-Contacts-Fit-p/cab-220s.htm
 
Thanks for that info. I thought ground throws were only mechanical and therefore only used for insulfrog

that's a good option
 
csxgandn said:
Although I think I understand how to modify a Peco Electrofrog to be "DCC friendly" one thing is unclear:
Click to expand...
First this is not a DCC issue. This is not a Peco issue. This is an issue with ever single hot frog turnout in existence (including the Atlas from the 1950s) A short circuit is a short circuit regardless of whether the power is DC, DCC, DCS, AC, or anything else. The turnouts are electricity unfriendly.

It seems the turnout will not change polarity ("polarity" may be the wrong word dealing with AC, electricity isn't my thing) in the frog without the use of a switch machine. I'm wondering if this is the case because I would like to lay a lot of track and throw turnouts by hand until I can install switch machines later but if I go this route it seems I may have to install switch machines as I go to. Am I right about that
Click to expand...
Well, actually the problem is that it DOES change the polarity of the frog with the point rails. So whichever polarity the frog is hooked to will be wrong when the turnout is thrown one way or the other. All you really need to do to make it work right is to insulate the two rails coming off the frog. If you WANT to add additional power feed to the frog (so its not depending on the contact of the point rail) you can add an additional electrical switch to do so.

I've run Peco Electrofrog turnouts for years (decades?) without any switch machines at all. I just use my finger to throw the points and let the built in spring hold the turnout one way or the other. I will caveat this all by saying all my HO Peco are code 100. Since you said #5, I assume yours are code 83. Here I have assumed that the insulfrog / electrofrog attributes of the two code types are not different. I am certain someone will chime in quickly if this is not true.
 
Thanks, Iron Horsemen. You got to the heart of my question when you explained that you throw the point rails with your finger. I wasn't sure if that would make the switch operate correctly in both directions or if I needed a switch machine to change the frog and closure rails when the point rails moved.

As I understand it, you're saying that I can use these turnouts and add switch machines later.

Thanks for the help and please correct me if I'm misunderstanding.

Btw. I do use code 83 so if there is an important difference between that and code 100 I hope someone will interject.

Thanks again
 
Just two totally useless points from my sick bed (3rd day into a bout of the flu): 1) avoid the whole issue of hot or cold frogs and string overhead; and 2) I could really use a good dose of Grog but I can't find a recipe for ElectroGrog. :eek:
 
Thanks for all the help so far, guys. I'm planning on starting to make this change soon. This is my first layout in decades and my first DCC layout so I have another question.

i think i will use Peco side mounted twin coil switch machines (PL 11 I believe). I use the NCE Power Cab and I'm wondering this - if I use NCE's QSnsp decoder, will that allow me to use the handheld Power Cab and my lap top with JMRI (once interfaced with the layout) to throw switches?

At present I don't do anymore with the Power Cab than run locomotives but trying to imagine how operations with one or two others will look like...and hoping i get to that point someday :D
 
Be careful with new Peco turnouts. They are neither Insulfrog or Electrofrog as Peco now makes all new and old including Code 83, Streamline and Finescale as retooled turnouts with their "Unifrog" configuration.

Peco description of Unifrog:

"The wiring of these new turnouts is a development of both the Insulfrog and Electrfrog designs. The stock-rails are wired to the centre-rails at the factory, which in turn are connected to the corresponding frog-rail. This means the turnout is completely live(except for the tip of the frog) with no extra wiring required. If the turnout is being used as a switch to isolate a section of track then it is simple job to remove the wire that joins the centre-rail and stock-rail and it will work like a current Insulfrog."

I have not purchased any Unifrog turnouts yet so cannot comment on how they work in reality.
 
Thanks, autocoach. I was not aware of the "Unifrog". As far as I can tell the Unifrog is not yet available in ho butit may be. Anyway, I just ordered my first two Peco Electrofrogs.

Since no one here has had experience with them and I didn't see anything about them on YouTube I went with the one I think I know enough about to get going.

I plan to use them right out of the box doing nothing more than insulating the rails from the frog and see how it goes before doing the modification that requires cutting the jumper wires and so forth.

Thanks for all the info, guys
 
From a UK forum:

"Out of the box it acts like an insulfrog. If you connect the wire from the unifrog to a aux switch on a point motor or to a frog juicer then that short bit of the frog will be live
I cant see much point in doing that because the piece of frog is very short & only locos with very short wheelbases may be affected."

peco unifrog code 83.jpg
I understand this is a Code 83 turnout recently purchased in Australia.

Ken
 
Nice find, Ken! I looked online for a while to find out about the new uniforg and found nothing.

I guess they are available in HO.

I'm not sure what, if any, advantages it has compared to the electrofrog though.
I have many turnouts to buy and a lot to learn. Maybe I'll try to get all electrofrogs while they're still available or choose the new uniforg.
 
autocoach said:
Be careful with new Peco turnouts. They are neither Insulfrog or Electrofrog as Peco now makes all new and old including Code 83, Streamline and Finescale as retooled turnouts with their "Unifrog" configuration.

Peco description of Unifrog:

"The wiring of these new turnouts is a development of both the Insulfrog and Electrfrog designs. The stock-rails are wired to the centre-rails at the factory, which in turn are connected to the corresponding frog-rail. This means the turnout is completely live(except for the tip of the frog) with no extra wiring required. If the turnout is being used as a switch to isolate a section of track then it is simple job to remove the wire that joins the centre-rail and stock-rail and it will work like a current Insulfrog."
Click to expand...
That is certainly interesting. News I've not heard anywhere else.
 
This is interesting from my club's point of view. They have been and will be replacing Peco turnouts on the layout and are intending to have them wired for hot frogs. Peco is virtually the standard in Aus. I'll have a look next Saturday to see whether the ones just replaced are of these or the older type.
csxgandn. I would agree that with a frog point that short, long wheelbased locos shouldn't matter whether the frog is powered or not, what Peco is doing is rationalising their product into a single item that does either, rather than 2 separate products.
 
Surprise, surprise. Another question from the rookie :). My first two Pecos are expected to be delivered today. I found the instructions online and they say to solder the feeders to the bottom of the rail joiners. If the rail joiners become loose over time would it not be better to solder the wires directly to the rails? Is there any reason that I should not do that?

Thanks, all
 
No, no reason you could/should not solder feeders directly to the rails.

Neither have I ever had a rail joiner become loose over time. If the track is securely attached to the roadbed there should be nothing to make them become loose. The only rail joiners I've had trouble with are ones that were used on sectional track when I was a kid where they were put together and taken apart time and time again. My rule is put the joiner on and fasten the tracks. If you ever have to take the track apart, use a new joiner.
 
Thanks , horse! I didn't think think soldering to the rail would be an issue but as I have to get Peco online, ipso facto pay shipping and wait days I wanted to make sure I didn't do something I'd regret.

Thanks!

btw, They arrived earlier today and I'm impressed with their look and apparent quality. My days of Atlas snap switches are over. Should have made the change sooner!
 
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