Old United Brass 2-8-0 problem

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S

spruce57

Member
Hi all,
I'm getting back into the hobby after about 35 years. Boy, what great changes from the old days! I have many older HO locomotives from a Mantua 0-4-0 and 2-8-2, to Atlas RS-3, AHM RS-2, Tenshodo SD-9 and United 2-8-0. After light tune-ups, they run amazingly well considering their age and heritages. All except the United 2-8-0. It is DEAD no matter what I try. It seems to be getting power and the tender wheel polarity has been checked. I'm wondering if it is the Pittman DC-70 motor.
Can anyone give me suggestions on what to do next? I am not a whiz at this type of troubleshooting.
 
United Brass Loco problems

If it were me, I would check the brushes and armature of the drive motor. After all these years, there may have been some action that pushed the brushes away from the armature or the armature may be corroded. If this does not solve the problem and you have a multimeter, you could check the windings of the motor to see if they are open. If they are, select the appropriate can motor and replace the Pittman.
HTH edj
 
Thanks for the suggestions. Should have thought of that. Been a long time away. How can I determine the appropriate can motor? NWSL?
 


United Brass Loco problems

Please don't quote me on this, I am in almost the same boat you are as far as being away from the trade. There are two requirements for the replacement motor and I feel they are equally as important: 1 FIT inside the compartment and 2 Amount of power the replacement can provide. #1 goes without saying but #2 can be tricky. One rough guide (not sure on this) is the amp draw of the new motor being close to the amp draw on the old one. This gets complicated because the new can motors are much more efficient than the Pittman 70 you may have to replace. I'm not sure if United Brass is still functional but if it is, a question to them might provide the answer. If UB has gone to the shiny rails in the sky, you might question your local hobby shop or club members, even someone else on here who is more on top of this swap situation.
HTH

edj
 
United Brass is long gone. If the motor is shot, replacing it with an NWSL can motor would be the way to go. The good thing is almost any can motor will draw less amps than the old Pittman. The bad thing is that they tend to be larger. Carefully measure the existing motor and your clearances and check at http://www.nwsl.com/Catalog/pg075-cat5-03-v0701.pdf to see if there's a good fit replacement motor available.
 
Thanks Jim and HTH. Being able to use this forum is very helpful, because I live in a part of Maine that is almost two hours away from the nearest model railroading related hobby shop or club.
Dave
 
A couple of suggestions are: A-Line Products, Walthers SKU# 116-40324 (in stock at Walthers now) or NWSL, Walthers SKU# 53-163099 (sold out at Walthers for now, but you may be able to locate one at a hobby shop somewhere) A google search will no doubt give you other sources. Mashima makes motors that will fit, and run well. You may end up having to fabricate a bracket, or at least drilling holes in the existing frame. I have a United 2-8-0, and I can tell you it won't be a drop in replacement!

Now on to the technical aspects. Amp draw has nothing to do with anything, at least when replacing motors in old model locomotives. (sorry, didn't mean to hammer anyone :D) The new motors draw less than half the amps the old Pittmans (or their clones) did, so making that comparison in old vs. new motors is essentially useless. A good rule of thumb is that when your loco hits it's limit pulling a train, it should slip the drivers, not stall. Most HO suitable can motors will not over draw curent from HO size (or even N sized) decoders. I have personally installed both these motors in many intermediate brass models and equipped them with decoders with great results. You'll have to do a little tinkering, but these repower very well, and the gearboxes are well designed, so the motor is all you should have to do. They're old models, but they're built like Cadillacs (the old ones!:D) and are very good runners. You may also have to add weight to get the most pulling power out of the model, but be careful. You can add too much. There is a fellow by the name of Mark Schutzer who has a website that shows several very good techniques for re-motoring brass. Go here: http://markschutzer.com/ and look at the P-1 Pacific conversion. It's probably pretty close to what you'll need to do.

Good Luck!
 
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before we assume the motor is the problem, remove the worm gear (that is on the motor's shaft) so that the motor can turn freely. You might be able to just lift the worm gear up after loosening the motor mounts; anything to let the worm gear run without engaging the next (spur) gear.

If it runs without the gear, it is something in the gear train, from solidified grease to jammed running gear (cranks, etc).
 
Well, the fellow said it was dead... I assume no humming, no grinding, no nothing, which means no power or bad motor. It is rare for these motors to actually die. There is also the possibility of a problem with the drawbar, or the wire from the drawbar to the motor. There may also be a separate gearbox, and not just a worm gear on the motor shaft, as there were, I believe 8 runs of the United 2-8-0. Disengaging the motor from the gears is a good idea if you have not troubleshot anything besides tender polarity. Check the motor brushes too, with a mulitmeter and make sure you have contact between the loco frame & the drawbar (one each :)). Look for anywhere something could short!!! Brake shoes if you have them into drivers, drawbar wire tab touching the loco frame, etc. Give the worm input shaft a few turns by hand too. You'll find out quickly if you have a bind. Did it run OK when you put it away?

BTW, On the Schutzer website, look at his clinic on troubleshooting & repairing brass steam locomotives. You don't have to do everything his way, but his ways are pretty darn good!
 
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You guys are awesome! I spent yesterday afternoon troubleshooting the engine from one end to the other based on the information received from my posting. I finally got it running. It appears to have been the contact between the loco frame and drawbar (so simple). Also, I resoldered the wire contacts. She looks great crawling along the track! I think I'll look into upgrading the motor, anyway.
Thanks for all your help!!
 


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