Need track plan suggestions for new layout

[ThoroughBreed]

I have one layout 30% built, no scenery, and most of the track laid, and use it to run a few locos from now and again as I cant get in to use it most of the time, but that one is not the subject here.
I am about to start another layout in the bedroom, an around the walls shelf type. I have the wifes blessing to do what I want to, as long as i dont bother her, lol. I'm gonna have to rehang 3 doors to swing outwards, which shouldn't be a big problem, except the bathroom door. I have started building modules to hang on the wall using the regular l-brackets from wallyworld. They will range in length upto 6' long, but will only get upto 18" wide. My theme here will be for long running, with a few long spurs, as the dimensions are as follows: 13' wide by 13' long in a complete square. I will try to make the curves wide radius to accomodate my autoracks and occasional excursion passenger train. I also want to have at least one yard, about 6' long to swap out trains, and a passing track opposite of it to run 2 trains at once with a single track mainline. My system is already dcc along with all my locos, so that takes care of the wiring and throttle issues.
I am open to any suggestions for track plans using the above measurements. You can have mountainous regions, industrial, open plains, whatever you can think of. I have a Fuel depot conglomeration in a box thats dying to be setup, along with 2 roundhouses (1 atlas and the other is a walthers?), a 90' turntable, and many small buildings already built. Almost all the buildings built are for the mainstreet type atmosphere, no warehouses, grain elevators or other industrial applications yet. I just need the plan to put one in somewhere and then will get one. I definitely need at least one grain elevator, as I have about 25 covered hoppers that need a purpose to exist on the layout lol. A auto dealership, manufacturing plant, or offload site would be nice also as I have about 20 enclosed auto racks of either the Walthers or Atlas articulated types. One more thing to consider is a coal mine/loading site as I have about 60+ hoppers and a couple of tipples that can be bashed to accomodate the loading of the cars. I have one train that is handled by my "own rr" that has mainly old patched 70 ton hoppers to carry the potash away from the plants. I want to use mainly 6 axel, sd70 series power also, so thats another reason for the wide radius curves.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I am open to any plans submitted.
Thanks, Eric "ThoroughBreed"

 

[SpaceMouse]

You know more about what you want than anyone and no track plan will exactly fit your space so you're going to have to draw something anyway.

So why not just draw something close and we can comment on it.

My beginner's guide might help.

 

[UP2CSX]

The first thing I'd do is sketch out the layout in a very basic form. How much will you have to bring out the shelves from the walls to get the curves you want? Given what you want to run, I'd go for 26" curves minimum. What will your railroad do? Sounds like you want mostly line haul with a yard and a few spurs. What will they serve? What kinds of industry? What part of the country will you model? What prototype railroad is the dominant one on your layout? Where will your town or towns be? How much space to do you need for them compared to track? The more specific you get about what you want as you plan, the better will be the final product.

 

[ThoroughBreed]

The first thing I'd do is sketch out the layout in a very basic form. How much will you have to bring out the shelves from the walls to get the curves you want? Given what you want to run, I'd go for 26" curves minimum. What will your railroad do? Sounds like you want mostly line haul with a yard and a few spurs. What will they serve? What kinds of industry? What part of the country will you model? What prototype railroad is the dominant one on your layout? Where will your town or towns be? How much space to do you need for them compared to track? The more specific you get about what you want as you plan, the better will be the final product.

The curves will be 28", as I have a cardboard template for that size already;
Thgis layout will mainly serve as a long running, through freight type layout;
I do want to put a few industrials on the sides to serve a local freight that will compete with a mainline freight for track time;
I would like to run coal trains, with potash for the waste side of that commodity;
I can run BNSF mainline 6 axels, and NS 6 axels, along with SP and CNW 6 axel power;
I have strings of coalporters for both NS and BN/SF; Also a string of older 70 ton type hoppers patched for my local road to use to pick up the potash waste;
I also have a string of 57' mech reefers; a string of covered hoppers; autoracks; wood products (woodchip hoppers, woodracks, 50' sieco cars, centerbeam cars); mixed freights; and a couple of passenger trains that I can run from time to time (SRR streamlined, NS OCS, ATSF heavyweights, ATSF streamlined, ATSF blue goose).
So, I can run just about anything on it. I just need some suggestions from some of you as to what you would put on that size layout.
Eric

 

[UP2CSX]

Eric, it sounds like you already have a good idea of what you want to put on your layout. Now, is this going to be Midewst flat, NS hilly, or BNSF mountains? The type of scenery will influence how much track and where it will go. Sounds like you have plenty of room for a double tracked mainline if that's what you want. I'd use a double track main just because it's more intersting to watch but a single track with sidings makes for more interesting operations. I'm a scenery guy so I'd be giving a lot of space over to towns, industries, and the countryside. With an around the wall layout, you also need to plan for view blocks so you can't always see when trains are runing. This can be mountains it tunnels, thick forests, or even a large industrial facility. No matter what your choice, you need something to hide the fact your trains are just going around in a circle. I'd go for two smaller yards at each end of the line rather than one big yard. This gives you a place to pick up and deliver cars. Planning for some kind of interchange track as part of the yards also makes more foreign power and off-line cars believable.

None of us can design your layout. I can tell you what I'd do in the same space but you might very well hate the idea. If you already have a reasonably clear idea of what you want, it's time to draw out the track plan and then post it here. Operational problems with your trackplan are the first order of business to solve before you move on.

 

[ThoroughBreed]

Well, I have been playing around with RTS and CadRail, and can't seem to get the hang of either one.
I mean, once I get the dimensions of the room equated in, then I can put in the other obstacles and start thinking about a track plan.
I found this place where you can create your own graph paper with specifying the lines per inch: http://incompetech.com/graphpaper/plain/
I'll use a sheet of it to layout the area, then use those measurements to place into either RTS or CadRail.
Let me do the first step and I'll post it when I'm finished with it.
Eric

 

[ThoroughBreed]

Heres some more basic info:

I have recently persuaded the wife to let me build a new layout. This time in the bedroom. A shelf type that goes all the way around the room. I dont want the depth more than 18" in any single place, but would prefer a continous run with a yard on 2 of the walls and eventually double decked.
The idea of the yard covering 2 walls is that by the time you got the the switches laid out, you have already used 3' of space and will be going into a turn in 5 more feet, so it would make sense to turn the yard around the corner there.
As for the doubledecking of it, I really dont want a high grade on it, so it will take 2 walls to make the grade of 6". So 6/26'= 2% roughly, so that will be acceptable. I need 6" to account for the underside of the above shelf and the fact I will be running excess height auto racks.
So heres the room layout plans, any suggestions will be more than welcome. On the yard area, the leads will be #6's and only 3 sets of tracks deep. I have already built one of the modules of the yard.
Heres the layout of the room, it is accurate within 6".

 

[SpaceMouse]

If you can't figure out the software (and have run the tutorials) then your other option is to buy a template from your LHS.

I suppose another option would be to hire a professional designer.

 

[UP2CSX]

You can't have a continious run with any reasonable curve if the shelf is never more than 18" from the wall. Let's consider the best case. Your straight track is two inches from the wall before it starts the curve. 22" radius curves will come out from the wall about nine inches before you again hit a straight section. The total amount of space you'll need is 2+9+22=33 inches. If the straight track is in the center of your 18" shelf, you'll need 9+9+22=40 inches. You'll need to add space in the corners for your curves that will come out between 33 and 40 inches. You can do this by making the corners triangular rather than square but you can't get continuous running with no section of the shelf wider than 18 inches.

Have you tried XTrkCAD? You can find it at http://www.xtrkcad.org/Wikka/HomePage. If you take an hour to run through the tutorial, I think you'll get the hang of it. It's much easier to see what you can do in a given space using CAD software.

 

[Cjcrescent]

You can't have a continious run with any reasonable curve if the shelf is never more than 18" from the wall.

Actually you can, Jim, but you got to be willing to sacrifice the room needed for other things in order to make that turn.

This first pic shows that with 2-18" wide modules joined at a corner, there is adequate room for a 28" curve, but not much else. You can also see that the curve, even if moved as close to the front edge of the module, can limit what else can be done. (It was drawn using XtrkCad. Jim is right about the program. Its all I use now.)

Eric, I believe that instead of joining the modules as I drew the corner, if you do whats shown in pic #2, you could use a larger radius. Only now it gives you an odd shaped module for the corners.

 

[UP2CSX]

Ah, CJ, I see where I was slightly off in my calculations. However, the 28" curve assumes that all the track will run at the back of the layout, not the best approach and probably not feasible. As the track moves toward the center of the shelf, the curve radius decreases. Your shape ( what is that, a hexagon?...I just look at it as some kind of triangle ) is what I was envisioning to give a reasonable curve without coming too far out into the room. There's no reason why it couldn't be cut so it fills the entire corner for scenery purposes.

 

[ThoroughBreed]

Track running at the rear of the shelf is not so much a bad thing as I can decreae the dcepth of the shelf to about 5-6" and it will be great. All I'm really after is somewhere for them to stretch their legs for a bit and run, not so much for scenery.

 

[ThoroughBreed]

I've had this posted to a few other forums, and most of the people there are concerned with scenery and so forth, but I'm just looking for some room to let the locos gte out and run and stretch their legs. I don't care about the scenery so much, and in fact, the depth can be decreased to as small as 5" to hold mainly the track. So, I can position the start of the curves anywhere as long as I get some wide-broad( 26-32"+) curves out of this. So for a 26" radius, I'll need just 14" from the inside of the curve to the xact corner. Shoot, I guess thatsz where I can put some of the scenery they want, lol.
I have a template that I use for the curves that I made when the other layout was laid. It goes form 24" on the inside to 28" on the outside of the curve, and made from sturdy cardboard. It covers an exact 1/4 of a circle. So I can take that and cut 4 of the corner sections out and get them ready to set on the walls and figure how much room from there to fill in. These corner sections will measure approx 28" from corner to end. So 56" from 156" is 100" left to fill in on each wall. 2 walls will have the yard on them and the other 2 will be the minimum depth for the track.
So now, lets see if anyone can configure that for me?