My first layout HO scale


Hawkesburytrain

Hawkesburytrain

Well-Known Member
Hi everyone,

I'm a new member who will be seeking everyone's help. The closest I got to anything "train" was walking on the rails when I was a kid. I've always been interested in having my own train model one day and that day has come. In my new house, we have a finished basement which will be used almost only for my new hobby. Here's a plan of the basement with a proposed table layout to start with.

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I've finished building my tables and have assembled 6 of them with 4 more to be installed this week

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For the last 4 weeks, I've been working on my design. I'm now on my 7th plan. My goal was to have a passenger train run along the entire layout on a higher level and freight with different yards on a lower level. This is what I came up with.

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So, I would appreciate your comments, good or bad. Like I said, my knowledge of trains, layouts, logic and more is limited to internet videos, forums and blogs. I'm very meticulous, have build miniature houses and design golf courses with 3D's and textures for games on internet. I'm very patient and have got the time to learn.

Thanks
 
Welcome to the forums, you've come to the right place. Half your luck having a finished basement. You've certainly presented an interesting concept and plan. I see you have allowed for crawl unders to get to the wall side of the layout, although they could become tiresome. And hey! I'm glad you didn't meet any trains while walking the rails as a kid, I'm amazed that I was able to wander around the loco yards unchallenged at that age too.

I thought at first that the space between the long side of the layout and the fireplace was a bit tight but obviously on the space plan that is low brickwork mostly.

I like the concept and the thought that's gone into this. Where you will need to consider changes are the radii of the loops and curves for the passenger track if you intend to run modern era 85' coaches. They need an absolute minimum 24" radius and preferably at least 28" to look presentable, especially when viewed from the outside of the curves (more gap between cars). I see your station on that track is for a sight seeing train, then I guess you are considering a steam excursion train where 50' cars or less would be used, therefore the curves you have should be fine. Only other cautionary comment would be the length of your tunnels for access in case of derailments within. If the terrain is high enough and open at the back and you can reach into them, shouldn't be a problem.
 
Welcome to the forum, glad to have you onboard!

I am by no means an expert, but that looks like a big project for your first layout.

Your background makes me think you could do it, but I'd expect a steep learning curve none the less.

From my experience starting out I have changed my mind more then I can count, in every aspect of my model railroad hobby. First I thought I wanted steam engines, then diesel. I thought I would stay with only my new O gauge Lionel, but had always had HO trains under my Christmas trees so I got into finding and rebuilding the trains from my youth. Then DCC caught my attention and I had to get involved with that fascinating aspect of the hobby. I could go on and on with one project after another that took me away from my original plans. Not to mention the countless times I changed my track plans.

My suggestion is to start small and see where the hobby takes you. I would start out with a RTR (ready to run) set, but I would never try to tell you how to enjoy your hobby. Most of the great layouts are not the modelers first layout. Like any thing experience is the best teacher. I believe this is a trail and error hobby, live and learn. Crawl, walk then run.

It's your hobby, don't let anyone tell you what to do, but listen to everyone then decide how to proceed. You will get lots of advice from the best experts you can imagine on this forum. Keep in mind everyone enjoys this hobby in their own way. You will find your niche.

Thanks for coming on the forum to share your hobby with us. Your fun is just beginning!
 
Welcome to the forum and to the hobby! First, I want to reiterate what Bruette said, but won't go through the motion of typing it all out. Just be sure to have the patience for the learning curve. It sounds like you do, but there's a line between optimism and reality.

I envy the space you have for the layout! When complete, it will certainly be worth admiring! Be sure to keep posting pictures so we can admire from afar!

A couple of things I noticed:
-The passenger line does not connect to the rest of the layout. If you do end up with some extra passenger cars, or a steam excursion locomotive, there is nowhere to put them. You can either add a small passenger yard, or connection to the mainline and use one of those yards. For a passenger yard, you can even put a hidden staging area below the layout. Then your passengers seem to go off somewhere and different train can appear from some other far off destination.
-Radius of the passenger line. This was already mentioned above, so I feel no need to get into it.
-The mainline looks like a switching layout with less spurs. The temporary expansion loop is part of phase 1? The way I see it, the loop will be there during this phase of construction and when you decide to move on to phase 3, something will be put in it's place. If so, I like this idea.
-As I mentioned, the mainline looks like a switching layout. That being said, there isn't much industry or switching going on. Maybe that is intentional? Would you rather watch the trains go round and round or have the need for switching action? Or maybe both? I'm not too good on switching layouts (I like the round and round with a little bit of action like what you have), but there are a lot of switching layouts on this forum. You can get some really good ideas from them.

I only mention those items as thought points. Of course, the layout works just as it is. And the beauty of this hobby is that it is what you want it to be. And you can even add/remove connections and points later. Everyone on this forum has their opinions, but it's your layout and you should do what you want with it. If this is your first, it will certainly not be your last - once the bug bites you, the infection is almost impossible to get rid of!

Enjoy!!
 
Thats a good looking plan. It looks modern with the container yards. So you will need a minimum of 30" radius curves. For both passenger and freight trains.

The passenger cars are 85 ft. and cars like auto-racks, flat cars, intermodel cars, etc. are long 89ft and require large radius curves. I have a modern layout. And I thought 24" radius would work with my large equipment. And it didn't work too well. Specially the 89ft autoracks and 85ft passenger cars. Since then I have gotten rid of all the 24" curves, and now have 32" curves. Everything works (and looks) much better now.

Also, I didn't see any passing sidings. You need some passing sidings that will be long enough to hold an entire train.

And a reverse loop so that you can turn your trains around and go the opposite way.

Don't worry too much about the size. On my first layout I went big also right from the start. Go big or go home as they say.
 
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Howdy and welcome i would recondmend going to walthers and getting the referance/catologe.. it will give you a good ideal what out there. Are you going to do dc or dcc system
 
Why do you want separate tracks for freight & passenger trains? That's not done in the real world. It looks like there's plenty of room to combine the two. It's OK to make it all double track w/ many Xovers so trains can pass each other. And DCC will make that a whole lot easier. But what ever you do, don't "cast it in concrete" w/ ballast & glue. Run it first to see how well your plan meets your needs.
Also that "yard" in the corner looks like it would be VERY hard to reach - both building & operating it.
 
I'm compelled to echo a comment made before: It's awfully big for a first layout.

By nature, I'm a "go big or go home" type myself: So my first few layouts were over-reaches that never got to a satisfactory level of completion... In all the initial excitement you overestimate how long you can stay highly-engaged and making progress without 'payoff'... You can reach a point where it feels like you'll never see the light at the end of the tunnel, and you just bog down.

On my first layout, I got very little of it ever scenicked. On my second layout (even bigger...duh) never even got fully operational. Since then, I scaled back at home and have actually "finished" a couple layouts; I indulge my 'big layout' fetish at a local club... Now that's me, and you may be different. Just saying it's possible.

One thought to help mitigate the risk: Right now your 'phase 1' doesn't look like it will result in operations commencing when complete. One thing that helps with the marathon is being able to get some things going. Maybe reconsider your phasing so it's less "left half/right half" and more "get the passenger loop running, then do the freight" (or vice versa).

Not trying to rain on your parade: I do think it's a really nice plan, well thought out and you have a clear vision of what you want (which is critical)
 
WOW, I didn't expect so many responses in one day. I guess I picked the right forum for help, Thanks.

I guess I should of mentioned that the era will be in the early 60's and will be Canadian theme (Canadian Pacific). The outside will mainly all be mountains (cliffs) for the passenger train, which should be about 10" above the low points. I'll be using DCC.

tootnkumin - Plenty of room between fire place and layout, just a bit more than 3 feet. I will have access under for the tunnels as they will be about 5-10" higher than the rest.

Bruette - Yes it's a big project, but it's very long term, that's why I'll be starting with Phase 1. I'm semi retired (mid 50's), so I've got the time. When I used to design golf courses for computer games, it was non stop changing, redo holes, change texture, add 3D, etc, so I know that changes will happen and I'm prepared for it. I just need to make sure I've got the right info.

bklynman01 - The passenger layout will be higher than the rest. The reason for being apart from the rest is that with a max of 2% grade, I would need lots of loops to get down. I wanted to create something like the "Rocky Mountaineer". I like your idea of adding passenger cars, a steam locomotive (future plan), and a hidden staging area, so will need to re-plan.
As for the freight mainline, I'm clueless. Yes the expansion loop in phase 1 is temporary. The only train I don't mind watching is the passenger trains, as for the freight trains, I want to PLAY with them.

Mothley - For the curves, I'll know better when I get my passenger cars (60's era), but you're right my 22" radius are to small, even for the container cars. I'll need to re plan (again). As for the passing sidings, oops forgot about that. Reverse loop, thought about it, but got scared about the wiring and had no clue about the logistics, will need to read up on it.

marriedshades - Thanks will do

cajon - The separate tracks for passengers and freight is due to different heights. 95% of the layout can be reached (I think) as I gave it a max of 36" reach (usually around 30")

kjchronister - I should of also mentioned that all my tables (phase 1 and 2) are done. I will be using the tables of phase 2 in a temporary matter to have a running loop for phase 1

I really do appreciate all your comments, exactly what I was hoping from a community, many thanks.

Here's a picture of my freight locomotive (2) and my yard locomotive (2-4)

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Hey Hawkesburytrain,

Nice locomotives!

Maybe I missed it so I will ask, are you planning on running DC or DCC?

I probably played one the golf games you worked on. I have been playing video games since the late 70s and sports games are my favorite. The latest game I played was John Daly's game. I won't play that other guys games.

I wish you well with your layout.
 
Thanks Louis,

I'll be running DCC

The golf game was Links from it's early going to Links2003 (last version). Now it's all about trains
 
Here is a good book about DCC. I read the first edition and even though it was already out of date it did a good job of explaining the fundamentals of DCC. http://www.modelrailroadbookstore.c...odel-Railroader-Books-Wiring-Electronics.html
being a tech guy myself I will bet you will want to know more then how to use DCC, I would expect you want to know how DCC works.
I thought that book was an excellent starting place.

One good thing you probably already know but I'll be redundant and say DCC is much simpler then advanced DC wiring.
 
A couple of thoughts:

1. Tracks at the passenger terminals are rather short, probably under 8 feet each.

2. Is it a working fireplace? If so, and you plan to use it, 3' is not enough distance, or you're end up with some melted plastic, due to the radiant heat from the fireplace.

3. I'd consider going with at least 28" radius curves. Larger is better for operation, generally speaking.

4.going to have a coach yard anywhere for your two terminals?

lets us know how you're doing!
 
Thanks Engineer,

I've been redoing my layout all day, all radius are now 32" because of the passenger and container cars. The passenger terminal is now very long to accommodate a freight passing by and I also now have a coach yard. I'm taking in all suggestions.
As for the fire place, I won't be using it. We're suppose to remove it and replace it with a gas fire place in another area (sometimes in the next 2 years)
I'll be posting a new layout tomorrow
 
In order to get those larger radii at the long (RH) end of the layout, I see there's a bar marked for removal. May I suggest you increase your layout into that corner (seems to be your intent) now, in order to achieve that.
 
Hey toot,
I did just that when working on it last night.

Here's my new table layout and the new train layout

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Now I've gone to 3 phases

Hope this looks better,
- 35" radius for passenger cars and containers
- 2 Passing zone added
- Trains can now go both ways

Anything else I might be missing?

For now, I need to build my last 4 extra tables
Later and thanks
 
It looks like the logging company only connects to the main through the passenger line. At that, it uses the passenger line to get there, disrupting passenger service. Albeit, in America, freight interrupts passenger lines all the time (and even takes priority on the lines), but it will create disruption on your layout. If this is designed this way, then leave it. My advice is to reroute that logging line around your passenger line.

If you're worried about height differences, there are a few ways to get around that...
1. you can wind the track down with tight radii from the logging company to a small staging area. The locomotives used on small lines like logging companies and coal mines are small, only able to carry two or three cars at a time (sometimes more). You can use as small as a 15" radius to wind down the hill to a siding where you can drop off cars of lumber. Then you main can pick them up from there.
2. The logging company can have a setup where a narrow gauge line carries the lumber in small loads to a "dock" where they use a crane to lower the lumber to the mainline cars waiting below. This is more typical of a coal mine setup, but nothing says you can't use the method! Then your logging company would be on it's own small line above unloading to larger cars below.

You can find pictures of these type of setups around the forum here or on Google (sorry, I'm at work - a screen full of model trains may not be great!).
 
Thanks bk,

I'll take a closer look to other lumber yard layouts
This layout, now has the freight going up passing by the lumber yard to create more traffic on the upper level
The blue line would be the tour passenger train and the entire layout will be used by freight

Should I isolate the freight and the passenger?
Maybe create a second track parallel so that they don't use the same track?
 
I've never understood how folks can build the platform first and THEN design the layout - but that's just me.

It's not unusual these days for layouts to be rather high to get things up closer to the eye. For example my main level is a 50" - although there is a lower level (mostly staging yard) at 27".

Also you need to take into account "reach" - how far back you can comfortably reach to work - and that depends on height.

Good luck.
 
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