Looking to get a few more diesel locomotives, need help deciding


N

NUTNDUN

Member
I currently only have two locomotives. Both of them being BLI Paragon 2 AC6000. I do like the way they run and they sound good. The low speed motor control is great as well considering using speed step 1 out of 128 and they will crawl along nicely.

I would like to try a couple of other brands as well. I use NCE for the control system. I am debating Athearn Genesis, Atlas Silver Series and Kato.

With the Kato, I have read a lot of good about their drives and the same with Atlas. I am not crazy about having to put on all of the small details with the Kato although I may end up enjoying it. I have read that Athearn Genesis has good detail and from the pictures I have been looking at I would have to agree. However it seems that they have had some issues in the past couple of years.

The engines I have been looking at are the SD70Ace. I thought about trying one of the Athearns with the Tsunami sound to try it but have seen a good bit posted about drive control issues with the Tsunami decoder but with enough programming you can get them to work pretty good. Also I guess consisting comes in to play with that as well.

I have been giving the decoder thing a lot of thought and would probably lean towards doing ESU Loksound Select decoders for any self installs and I know it would probably be a good idea to stick with one brand of decoder for all future engines. The Kato's that you get from the Kobo shops have the ESU Loksounds in them.

Right now I would like to get one in CSX and one in Union Pacific so I have a pair of each roadname. Just having a hard time deciding which manufacturer to spend the money one.

Out of all of the google searching I have been doing I haven't been able to find much discussion on Athearn's recent releases. Most of the discussions I have found are from two years or more ago.

I am leaning more towards trying a Athearn but would like to know if the most recent ones have had most of the issues fixed?
 
If you're looking at the SD70Ace's. Don't get Athearn. They don't sound that great because of the poorly made single speaker. And they also don't pull very well.

Get the MTH SD70Aces. They not only sound great with dual speaker system, but they pull like a Clydesdale on steroids.

All My Aces are MTH, I have 6 of them. Never had a problem with any of them. And they pull crazy good, and very smooth at slow speeds.

MTH's recent runs of these all have better DCC support, so you can consist them with other loco manufactures. But from the factory, all MTH will consist together with no changing speed matching or anything. Just set em up and run em.
 
Honestly I would rather stay away from MTH. Not that they don't make nice models but I have other reasons and don't want this to turn in to a debate thread on that.

I think I might lean towards the Kato to try another brand besides BLI. If the Athearn had led lighting I would definitely get one. I would not hesitate either to get more BLI's but like I mentioned I would like to experience other brands as well. I also want to do a couple installing my own decoder / sound to learn more about the models also.
 
NUTNDUN said:
I am debating Athearn Genesis, Atlas Silver Series and Kato. ...

The engines I have been looking at are the SD70Ace. ...

I am leaning more towards trying a Athearn but would like to know if the most recent ones have had most of the issues fixed?
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I was unaware Atlas made an SD70ACe.

I know nothing of the new Genesis, but here is a person who believes all the problems from prior runs are fixed.

http://forum.atlasrr.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=69173
 
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NUTNDUN said:
Honestly I would rather stay away from MTH. Not that they don't make nice models but I have other reasons and don't want this to turn in to a debate thread on that.
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If you're talking about MTH having there own version of DCC, and that its not compatible with DCC standards and crap. Thats old news, MTH has changed there decoders and have all the same functions now that other manufactures have.

Kato's are nice, but lack detail. They specialize in N scale also, so their HO scale models run great, but thats about it.

Athearn SD70Aces may have fixed there sound/speaker problems. But they run like shit, no pulling power at all. And like you said, they don't even have LEDs.

Don't get me wrong, I have several Athearn Genesis locomotives, like the SD75Ms. They are pretty decent but don't hold a candle to my MTH Aces.

It's your choice, but you obviously have never owned an MTH SD70Ace, so how can you conclude your decision not to buy one.
 
Motley said:
If you're talking about MTH having there own version of DCC, and that its not compatible with DCC standards and crap. Thats old news, MTH has changed there decoders and have all the same functions now that other manufactures have.

Kato's are nice, but lack detail. They specialize in N scale also, so their HO scale models run great, but thats about it.

Athearn SD70Aces may have fixed there sound/speaker problems. But they run like shit, no pulling power at all. And like you said, they don't even have LEDs.

Don't get me wrong, I have several Athearn Genesis locomotives, like the SD75Ms. They are pretty decent but don't hold a candle to my MTH Aces.

It's your choice, but you obviously have never owned an MTH SD70Ace, so how can you conclude your decision not to buy one.
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I did kind of get caught up on the whole MTH decoder not supporting regular dcc standards and having to use their system if you wanted all functions. I also didn't care for the lawsuits but that isn't much of a factor. It was mainly the decoder thing.

Prices seem to be a little higher on their models and I would be willing to give one of their models a shot, especially if the whole dcc support issue is irrelevant now a days.
 
NUTNDUN said:
I did kind of get caught up on the whole MTH decoder not supporting regular dcc standards and having to use their system if you wanted all functions. I also didn't care for the lawsuits but that isn't much of a factor. It was mainly the decoder thing.

Prices seem to be a little higher on their models and I would be willing to give one of their models a shot, especially if the whole dcc support issue is irrelevant now a days.
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Yep figured that much. The DCC support issue is irrelevant. They are worth every penny, you won't be disappointed. I want more of them, thats how happy I'm with them.

This one is my pride and joy here...

P1000793.jpg
 
Motley said:
Yep figured that much. The DCC support issue is irrelevant. They are worth every penny, you won't be disappointed. I want more of them, thats how happy I'm with them.

This one is my pride and joy here...

P1000793.jpg
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My question would be is if I were to get a MTH, at what point did they address the dcc funstionality? Some of the SD70Ace that I have found have the proto sound 3 decoder. Would this be current enough? I know i can get ones without the decoder but the ones that I have found would be hard to pass up price wise as opposed to without. $159 without opposed to $209 with.
 
Any of them with Protosound 3 and the very new Protosound 3E. That were manufactured within the last year.

With the one with UP, get the new comfort cab. That has Protosound 3E.

But I went to find one for you, and they are very scarce right now. Did you find any?

You may have to preorder, I believe the next batch is due out in Feb - March 2013.

They sell like hotcakes every time they come out with new ones available.
 
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I usually buy from model train stuff. They have non dcc equipped BNSF SD70Ace with comfort cab's but I would be spreading out even more on the roadnames. Bad enough I got UP and CSX and Conrail LOL.

I will definitely at least keep an open mind with MTH from now on.
 
NUTNDUN said:
I usually buy from model train stuff. They have non dcc equipped BNSF SD70Ace with comfort cab's but I would be spreading out even more on the roadnames. Bad enough I got UP and CSX and Conrail LOL.

I will definitely at least keep an open mind with MTH from now on.
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I would just wait if you can hold on, until the new batch comes. Get the dcc with sound units.

If you buy the DCC ready versions, you will end up spending another $100 on a sound decoder, speakers, speaker enclosures. Then you have to install it, which is a lot of work. If you don't know what you're doing. Don't attempt it. So then another $75 for a professional to install it for you.
 
I don't mind installing decoders. Have done quite a few in slot cars and am fairly handy with a soldering iron. If I do go the route of buying dcc ready and having to add a decoder I believe I have decided on using Loksound Select series decoders.
 
NUTNDUN said:
I don't mind installing decoders. Have done quite a few in slot cars and am fairly handy with a soldering iron. If I do go the route of buying dcc ready and having to add a decoder I believe I have decided on using Loksound Select series decoders.
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Soldering slot cars is one thing. But these sound decoders are complicated. The wiring you must do is not easy. I tried a decoder install, and fried the whole locomotive, just smoke it. LOL

Now I just have someone do it for me.

Not only that, but you need to install the speakers and baffles. You have to modify the chassis, and find a place that the speakers fit in.
 
Have you ever programmed a decoder? Thats another thing you must do with third party sound decoders.

What DCC system do you have? What most people use, is a free program for use with sound decoders. Its called Decoder Pro JMRI. You connect your computer with a USB-Serial cable to your DCC system. If it supports it.

If it wasn't for Decoder Pro, I would tear my hair out trying to program a decoder.
 
I disagree with what motley says about athearn. As you can see from his roster he prefers mth. I honestly think hes giving a biased opinion because thats what he prefers. It only takes one bad apple to make a person think something is garbage...

Its like comparing a chevy to a ford.

People tend to here what other people say and the badwagon continues that way.

I have a sd70ace in athearn and i think the sound is way better then alot of others on the market.
I think it pulls alot better then "shit" like motley suggests. atherns sd70ace has great pulling power and it gives more realism when you put more locos on the consist.
Actually i like the lighter engine weight because a heavy engine may be able to pull 40 cars, but on a grade i actually want engines to stall because if you think of it, real trains often stall so they are under powered it would personally add realism to me. but just make sure the line behind you is clear!


FYI, I recently purchased a new (2012) Athearn SD70Ace and I think they have improved on a few of the issues motley cited here. I also have one from 2010 and, in comparison, the new one sounds much louder; I agree with motley that the old version's were below par. I've had no problem with the drive on either one, good crawl I feel. But nor do i have alot of MTH experience, so no insight there.

Dcc use, athearn you can function change all the cv's where mth out of the box you cannot change the cv's. Mth you can buy dcc ready locos, and install a decoder and change the cvs that way

Yes mth feels heavier then athearn, but i do not think one can say athearn pulls like shit, obviously the heavier loco should pull slightly better then the lighter one, but you cant say the lighter one is junk because of this, weight does not always equal better pulling, it just means a heavier engine.

sure mth might pull more cars but they pull unrealistically the sd70ace is rated for 12 (scale weighted) cars which u probaly dont do i have an athearn and it can pull 12 cars uphill and about 25 on flat like in real life. athearn sounds mmmmuuchhh better and more acurate in my opinion, also mth cant run with most other sound decoders. while athearn can run with everything and athearn can be easily speed matched.

These are just my opinions, just like motley he gave you his opinions. It would be nice if some other people could reply to this thread as well


My suggestion to you is to do more research, can you go to a club and see what some other guys are running? Maybe test athern, mth, and kato.
Whats junk to one person is gold to another.

Its hard to hear good results from youtube, but i know you can find other people's reviews on youtube.

For the money of these locos, do your homework

All in all a locomotive is a locomotive, if you need power use what you have! I've learned that over the years!

btw, modeltrainstuff.com is a good place to order from. But it looks like motley may have found a place for you to order from

Remember, to each his own
 
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NUTNDUN said:
I usually buy from model train stuff. They have non dcc equipped BNSF SD70Ace with comfort cab's but I would be spreading out even more on the roadnames. Bad enough I got UP and CSX and Conrail LOL.
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That's no problem. Modern RR practices means you get locos from different roads mixed up on consists all over the country. You could choose your favorite road as the main one, but no problems mixing in other roads. Conrail is particularly good during the last decode as they might be owned NS or CSX. Or you can go back into the 80's and 90's and run as conrail.

As to brands, I'm leaning toward Atlas. They have nioce sound set ups and good mechs. Also they have great detail on their silver and gold models: step perforations, treadplate detail, etc.
 
joed2323 said:
Dcc use, athearn you can function change all the cv's where mth out of the box you cannot change the cv's. Mth you can buy dcc ready locos, and install a decoder and change the cvs that way

Yes mth feels heavier then athearn, but i do not think one can say athearn pulls like shit, obviously the heavier loco should pull slightly better then the lighter one, but you cant say the lighter one is junk because of this, weight does not always equal better pulling, it just means a heavier engine.
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Joe, I have to set you straight on the DCC functionality of changing cv's on MTH. Any MTH Ace that has been produced in the last year or so, have FULL cv program functions as any decoder on the market.

I don't have any Athearn Aces. But at my LHS, I have seen the demos run and sound in their latest versions. I own 5 Genesis locos, in which they all have the same motors as the Aces. I have SD75Ms, SD60s, and Veranda Turbine. They all have pretty weak pulling power. OK maybe they don't run like shit, but compared to my MTH Aces, they just are not even close.

And on the sound. The Athearn has a single speaker, where the MTH has dual speakers. So sound wise, again the MTH is better.

And why Athearn is still not using LEDs in their products is beyond me. Every other manufacture of higher end locomotives is using LEDs. Heck, even Bachmann Spectrums have LEDs.

From the MTH SD70Ace with Protosound 3 manual. Scroll down to page 26
http://www.mthtrains.com/sites/default/files/download/instruction/80dl15194i.pdf
 
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Michael,

Is the Proto 3E sound any better than 3.0? Personally, I want to like MTH locomotives, I have 2, but Ive had some issues (since cleared up). Ive never really liked the PS3 sounds. A look though their website and 2013 catalog didnt yield any results for 3E sounds. Also nothing on Youtube.
 
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