Long trains and helpers


dieselfan1

dieselfan1

Member
I never had good luck with helpers until I tried something different. I always would just make up a long train and throw a helper at the end of the train and after a few minutes I would have a derailment somwhere in middle of the train. The other night I was running a 94 car train with six Kato SD 70 Macs on the point with no helpers. The cars were mostly IM Trinity Hoppers and Athearn 30,000 gal. Ethanol Tank Cars. At about the 50th car it would become uncoupled ,always between two of the Athearns w/ McHenry couplers. So last night I tried a helper in the middle of the train and a helper at the rear and 4 on the point. It worked flawlessly. I ran that train for 4 hours at a scale 20-30 mph and never had a hiccup.:D I am thinking about adding about 20 more cars to that train and making a video of it. I will probably slow it down to about 15 scale mph too.

I came to the conclusion that the McHenry's just don't work as good as MT's.

What do you do for helpers on long trains and how long are they?
 
Yep, the prototype RRs also put helpers in the middle of long trains. This is so the couplers are not over stressed which may be the cause of your un-coupling.

Are you consisting the helpers or controlling each separately (DC or DCC)?

running a 94 car train with six Kato SD 70 Macs
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Nice.
 
Haven't run N but imagine HO is much the same. Are you running all of the locomotives from the same throttle? That only works if your track is pretty much flat.

The important thing is to not put too much power on the train -- if all of the locomotives are able to do equal work close to their limits, one throttle works fine.
 
DC and no grades. 100% flat track. MRC Tech 4 260 for power. I designed the the layout to run long trains at slow speeds thats why no grades. In my experience long trains don't like grades or high speeds. Also minimun radius is 28'' so there is no sharp curves. Long trains usually don't like sharp curves either. I'll see if I can't get a video put together tonight if I can.
 
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Thanks for the details. What you're running, really, is closer to what's now called distributed power, instead of helpers that are put on for only part of a trip.

Ideally, you want to handle it kind of like two or three trains that happen to be coupled.

After your lead units, tag on about 75% of their maximum load. Do the same with the mid-train unit, but put four or five of its cars ahead of the mid-train engine to give a little buffer.

Then, the trailing unit can push about 75% of their usual load.

If your locomotives can handle more cars than are easy to run on the layout, think about building either dummy engines [no motors] or unpowered sound units.

As long as the locomotives all run at pretty much the same speed, it should work, especially if you run them slow.
 
I've run about thirty cars with multiple locos, both with locos at each end and with some in the middle too. Mine goes up grades and functions ok at any speed, but I'm running DCC with speed-matched locos with good BEMF.

Also, I'd get rid of the McHenry's if they're giving you trouble. I've still got one or two cars with them that are behaving, but I've had to replace a few others that weren't.

Wouldn't mind seeing your 90 car train. :)
 
I live in a helper district (Bozeman Pass on the MRL) and a lot of traffic is BNSF coal and grain with some intermodal. BNSF usually runs 2 units on the front and 1 or 2 on the rear.......the MRL helpers (2 to 4 SD70ACe's and/or SD45s) are cut into the middle of the train, which is the setup you are using. At our NTRAK setups, I have 2 ABC sets of LL C-linersand I'll run an ABC set on the front (occassionally an ABBC) and an AC set about 60% back in the train, which is usually 80 to 100 cars. As Joe says, it's almost like running 2 trains that happen to be coupled.
 
This is one of my favorite subjects of all time....and exactly why N scale is the best for me....I love long trains in small spaces! :)
 
Although I have HO. I routinely run 100+coal trains at club. Twice now I have run 240 car trains. I use mid train helpers and end of train pushers. In the front 3 80MAC's then whatever they can pull, another 80 mac with more cars, and 2 SD45-2's on the end. When I do the 240 cars it's just for fun. That takes allot of power. Usually 7 or 8 engines. Even in HO scale McHenry's are the bane of long trains.
 
On my first real layout (5' x 7') I ran around 100 cars w/ helpers. Problem was tight curves & excessive grades. Once I got the train moving it was fine, but starting it was tough mostly due to at least one tight curve.
I did make a video of it, I would have to do a car count. The rear end was chasing the head end from 15 cards away. ;)
 
Here you go

Here is the video. Sorry about the quality, I used an older digital camera. BTW this is the first peek at my new layout I've been building for the last year.More to come as I get more done.
http://youtu.be/oqTyoFVDXWc
 
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I have a steam-transition era layout with radii of 30 inches and 24 inches. I usually run trains of 40 cars with my large steam locomotives9 Challengers & Big Boys. The layout is a "U" shaped around the room layout in a train room 21'x12'.

My diesels can pull more cars but I prefer to run trains with 40 cars as a limit.
 
Cheers! They've been known to pull freight as well but they look best in front of the CZ. It's a matching set, #365A, B & C. The A & C units are easy to find but the B unit was a bugger! Sent a looot of emails but nobody had any or could get more. I got mine from a UK store and it cost a relative fortune. Worth every penny though! I wouldn't mind another to make an ABBC set but getting some CB&Q E units are a higher priority.
 
long trains and multiple units powering them

When I run steam I usually double head a couple of Kato mikes, and when it's diesel we run four head end units with at least two in the middle of an 86 car train on our N scale, DC, 4X8 ft layout. So I guess we run em rather prototypical in that way. Pushers don't seem to work well without mid train units involved. It's just so darn much fun, man what a hobby:D:D
 
dieselfan1 said:
I never had good luck with helpers until I tried something different.
Click to expand...

I came to the conclusion that the McHenry's just don't work as good as MT's.
Click to expand...
That should not be surprising.

What do you do for helpers on long trains and how long are they?
Click to expand...
A fact that I have not seen anyone mentioned is that many N-scale cars have truck mounted couplers. In general it is much harder to push a heavy load in that configuration, than it is with body mounted couplers reguardless of the coupler brand. It would be interesting to know the coupler mounting and curvature of track being used by those sucessfully using rear end pushers.
 
Those are good questions and body mounted couplers are definitely more prototypical and function better. Another thing that helps is to speed test your locomotives and put the slower ones in the back. Of course this only helps going forward.


Mike
 
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