Kato Unitrack Routing


S

ScottCh

Member
Why do Kato n scale #4 turnouts have to have routing turned off when #6 turnouts have routing on by default and cannot be changed?

I would prefer to have routing on when using DC and wonder why I cannot connect all the spurs to the bus when using DCC?

I want a DC and separate DCC bus so I can run all my locomotives, but would not, of course, run both simultaneously.

Thank you,

Scott
 
Mixed Freight said:
Although I've never messed with Kato turnouts, here's a couple of links that might answer your questions...........
Wiring for DCC
Gauge Master Right Lines
Check them out, and see if they can answer your questions. Even I learned a little by skimming thru them. :eek:👍
Click to expand...
I wasn’t aware of the second one. Thank you! I don’t think they address why #4 can be set, but #6 always has routing. I’ll come back, if it’s not answered.
 
Mixed Freight said:
Although I've never messed with Kato turnouts, here's a couple of links that might answer your questions...........
Wiring for DCC
Gauge Master Right Lines
Check them out, and see if they can answer your questions. Even I learned a little by skimming thru them. :eek:👍
Click to expand...
My head really hurts. Digitrax does not offer wiring support, but It was suggested to keep #4 routing. Their tech papers say to use non-routing as per Kato. I think they’re playing it non-committal.

They did say to power the sidings, which is my thought.
 
In a DCC layout, it is good practice to insulate the 2 frog rails, and run power drops to all 3 sides of a turnout.
 
JeffH said:
In a DCC layout, it is good practice to insulate the 2 frog rails, and run power drops to all 3 sides of a turnout.
Click to expand...
Thanks Jeff,
Would that apply whether power routing or not? I was going to power all three sides on the power routed #6, which cannot be changed, and insulated joiners on the frog rails would be easy enough.

So you would do that on the non-routed as well? Power feeds through all sidings regardless of switch position.

As a clarification, do you mean to insulate the stock rails on the frog end as well, or is that not necessary?
 
JeffH said:
In a DCC layout, it is good practice to insulate the 2 frog rails, and run power drops to all 3 sides of a turnout.
Click to expand...
I think the #6 routing turnouts have insulated frogs.
 

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All I know is that I bought a bunch of N scale Peco "Insulfrog" turnouts to use on my layout. They were power routing, and in order to avoid shorts, I had to gap the joints on the frog rails, and provide drops to those insulated rails.

So... having an insulated frog on power routing turnouts the power routing will still cause shorts in some circumstances like a passing siding.

Because a frog can be insulated or electrified by design, yet the whole turnout can still be "power routing," there is a lot of misinformation online about how to wire a layout.

In a DCC environment, gapping the frog rails and adding power feeds to all 3 sides of a turnout is a foolproof way to get things right irrespective of the type of turnout, and how it handles power.
 
JeffH said:
All I know is that I bought a bunch of N scale Peco "Insulfrog" turnouts to use on my layout. They were power routing, and in order to avoid shorts, I had to gap the joints on the frog rails, and provide drops to those insulated rails.

So... having an insulated frog on power routing turnouts the power routing will still cause shorts in some circumstances like a passing siding.

Because a frog can be insulated or electrified by design, yet the whole turnout can still be "power routing," there is a lot of misinformation online about how to wire a layout.

In a DCC environment, gapping the frog rails and adding power feeds to all 3 sides of a turnout is a foolproof way to get things right irrespective of the type of turnout, and how it handles power.
Click to expand...
I hear you. Thank you. My frogs spear to be insulated, so feeders all the way around will hopefully do it.
 
OP:

It's just the way they were made, when they were made.

I found this out when I built my (small) HO layout using Kato Unitrack.
(all of what follows below is in regard to their HO gauge track -- I have NO experience with N gauge)

The POWERED #4 switches (now discontinued, I think) are power-routing and this cannot be changed.

All the MANUAL switches I've used (both #4 and #6 have user-selectable power-routing or non-power-routing).

I can't remember whether the POWERED #6 turnout allows the user to select power-routing or not. I've only got one of them in service, and it's in the back and works "as it is now".

The recently introduced 2-852 and 2-851 manual #4 turnouts (not sure if the latter number is correct) probably have selectable power-routing.

My advice is to disregard reply 5 above.
Reason why: any messing with Kato switches may lead to a bunch of headaches, particularly with the mechanical "switchgear" concealed underneath the ties. I found this out the hard way. Try taking a powered #4 or #6 switch apart, and getting it back together again! Upon examination, I've found the POWERED #4 switches have "built-in gaps" behind the frog, right out of the box.

If you need powered turnouts, my recommendation is to buy MANUAL Kato switches and then add the power module. The only problem I've found with these is that when it gets cold (below, say, 50F), you have to be careful when throwing the switches for the diverging route, that the points go all the way over. No problem with "normaling up" the points. Warmer weather -- they work just fine.
 
J.Albert said:
OP:

It's just the way they were made, when they were made.

I found this out when I built my (small) HO layout using Kato Unitrack.
(all of what follows below is in regard to their HO gauge track -- I have NO experience with N gauge)

The POWERED #4 switches (now discontinued, I think) are power-routing and this cannot be changed.

All the MANUAL switches I've used (both #4 and #6 have user-selectable power-routing or non-power-routing).

I can't remember whether the POWERED #6 turnout allows the user to select power-routing or not. I've only got one of them in service, and it's in the back and works "as it is now".

The recently introduced 2-852 and 2-851 manual #4 turnouts (not sure if the latter number is correct) probably have selectable power-routing.

My advice is to disregard reply 5 above.
Reason why: any messing with Kato switches may lead to a bunch of headaches, particularly with the mechanical "switchgear" concealed underneath the ties. I found this out the hard way. Try taking a powered #4 or #6 switch apart, and getting it back together again! Upon examination, I've found the POWERED #4 switches have "built-in gaps" behind the frog, right out of the box.

If you need powered turnouts, my recommendation is to buy MANUAL Kato switches and then add the power module. The only problem I've found with these is that when it gets cold (below, say, 50F), you have to be careful when throwing the switches for the diverging route, that the points go all the way over. No problem with "normaling up" the points. Warmer weather -- they work just fine.
Click to expand...
It’s my understanding that HO and N are the same except HO #4 and N #6 are power routing, whereas HO #6 and N #4 are selectable…go figure.

I think post #5 meant to use insulating joiners on the frog rails, requiring no modification. I certainly don’t want to tear a turnout apart.

i think DCC would feed back through non-routing yards, but sidings in routed yards would have to be powered and all turnouts powered on the point ends. I think you’re saying as much.

Thank you!
 
Yes, Scott. It could very well be that Kato turnouts already come with insulated uni-joiners on those frog rails from the factory.

As I mentioned, the Kato stuff just seems to work right out of the box.

A short on a passing siding can occur when both the entry and the exit turnouts are not thrown concurrently. In other words, if the entry point onto a passing siding is thrown to enter the siding, but the exit is not... then a conflict could exist at either or both sets of frog rails.
 
JeffH said:
Yes, Scott. It could very well be that Kato turnouts already come with insulated uni-joiners on those frog rails from the factory.

As I mentioned, the Kato stuff just seems to work right out of the box.

A short on a passing siding can occur when both the entry and the exit turnouts are not thrown concurrently. In other words, if the entry point onto a passing siding is thrown to enter the siding, but the exit is not... then a conflict could exist at either or both sets of frog rails.
Click to expand...
Ah. That makes sense.
 
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