Kato N Scale -- Switch Problem?


baja463

baja463

Member
As some of you know, I just acquired a Kato M2 set. This set includes LH and RH switches to provide a passing siding. After setting it all up, I've hit a switch problem.

Both switches work fine when there is nothing on the track. As soon as I try to run a loco, the set loses power completely when I throw either one of the switches from straight to curve. If I remove the loco, all works great. If I try to run a loco and throw a siding switch, the power goes off. I've tried different locos, but I get the same result. I've changed the position of the switches, same thing.

I'm used to Marklin HO trains and AC power, so it may be my lack of understanding about how trains run on DC power that has me scratching my head.

This is really wearing me out ... Can anyone help?
 
I believe those turnouts are power routing, meaning power will flow in which direction the turnout is thrown.

There are a couple ways to solve this, On the back of the turnout there are small screws that change this setting, The back of the turnout packaging had the directions, If its a set it might not have these instruction. There are probably a number of videos on how to do this.

Second would be to add your own feeders to each leg of the turnout.

If im reading your problem right, one of these steps should solve what your experiencing.
 
migalyto said:
I believe those turnouts are power routing, meaning power will flow in which direction the turnout is thrown.

There are a couple ways to solve this, On the back of the turnout there are small screws that change this setting, The back of the turnout packaging had the directions, If its a set it might not have these instruction. There are probably a number of videos on how to do this.

Second would be to add your own feeders to each leg of the turnout.

If im reading your problem right, one of these steps should solve what your experiencing.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the guidance, Migalyto ... after browsing, I see this is a common problem with Kato turnouts. Unfortunately, my turnouts (I think they are #6) do not have the screws you mentioned, so I guess I have no choice but to learn how to add my own feeders.

Maybe I should be replacing these with #4 turnouts, which have the adjusting screws, because to me soldering is a foreign language.

I'm completely mystified as to WHY Kato would do this -- why have turnouts that don't work unless I add my own feeders?

Thanks again for providing the food for thought. I have learned a lot.
 
Migalyto ... Just wondering: is there a way to set these to NON-power routing? From what I'm reading, doing this provides power continuously. Feedback?
 
baja463 said:
Migalyto ... Just wondering: is there a way to set these to NON-power routing? From what I'm reading, doing this provides power continuously. Feedback?
Click to expand...
I would spend some time on youtube (if you haven't already) and see how the N scale guys are solving this. If it were me, I would solder feeders to all legs of the turnout. 3 sets per turnout.

I used Unitrack in Ho scale and the #6s had the ability to change this setting.

I was assuming the N scale turnouts had this option as well.
 
baja463 said:
Thanks again for the good advice, Mike. Hope to solve this soon.
Click to expand...
You will!

If your skittish about soldering feeders to your rail, don't be. Get a scrap piece of track and practice, practice, till your comfortable doing it. That's how we all learn.

Again YouTube is going to be your friend. There's some great soldering videos out there. That's how I learned, and now quite frankly i enjoy doing it.

Any more questions don't hesitate to ask, were here to help!
 
baja463 said:
As some of you know, I just acquired a Kato M2 set. This set includes LH and RH switches to provide a passing siding. After setting it all up, I've hit a switch problem.

Both switches work fine when there is nothing on the track. As soon as I try to run a loco, the set loses power completely when I throw either one of the switches from straight to curve. If I remove the loco, all works great. If I try to run a loco and throw a siding switch, the power goes off. I've tried different locos, but I get the same result. I've changed the position of the switches, same thing.

I'm used to Marklin HO trains and AC power, so it may be my lack of understanding about how trains run on DC power that has me scratching my head.

This is really wearing me out ... Can anyone help?
Click to expand...
Kato #6 switches are "power routing". This means the main end's power will go down whichever way is switched. It also cuts off power from either of the lines coming off it back to the main line.

Perhaps if you can provide a rough sketch of your layout we can diagnose the problem. For a normal M2 "default" layout, it is a passing siding/station, so if both are switched the same, you should have power to one OR the other tracks. However if both if they are switched opposite then both lines will have power. The idea is you can run 2 trains on a default M2 layout... one waits as one goes so to speak.
I have no experience of AC, but in DC you can control multiple trains by controlling the track power in this way, either by routing turnouts, or by isolating sections of track and having toggle switches to turn sections on or off (which is in effect what your turnouts are doing for you). If you don't want them to route the power then you can simply bridge them so all track is live all the time.

eg:
--/= set to turn out, then power is only on top track
---= set straight the power goes straight, other track goes off.

PS: does a red light go on in the controller? if so then your loco has too much draw or you have a short. Also if you have a voltmeter, it might be worth doing some probing to try and diagnose what is going on in all circumstances.

PPS: silly question maybe, you do not have your track voltage feeder on one of the exit lines of the switch do you (in the passing siding)? Because that means that when the switch is thrown you will loose power to whole layout except that siding track.
For example:
Put feeder here! ----/=== not here! ===\--- here is ok too assuming you have a loop, otherwise bridge the whole section to other side of passing siding.
 
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migalyto said:
You will!

If your skittish about soldering feeders to your rail, don't be. Get a scrap piece of track and practice, practice, till your comfortable doing it. That's how we all learn.

Again YouTube is going to be your friend. There's some great soldering videos out there. That's how I learned, and now quite frankly i enjoy doing it.

Any more questions don't hesitate to ask, were here to help!
Click to expand...
You do not need to solder to the rails of Kato track.. Just get a pin and ease out the metal coupler of a unijoiner by pressing to the left and then right. this will allow you to solder to it and pop it back in. (although you might want to buy a bag of them (they are pretty cheap) before trying incase you balls it up 😆
To be honest though having power routing is usually a good thing on a DC layout as you do not want voltage everywhere. As i said above when done as designed you can run 2 trains on an M2 (one at a time, but still 2 trains :D ).
 
bnsf971 said:
Have you tried simply selecting both turnouts to the thrown position? Only throwing one can cause a short.
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It won't short on the M2 default layout because they are fed the same polarity. Only in the case of a reversing loop or reversed configuration they would be a problem. I have the M2 and if both are switched differently there is no short.
The only thing I can think of that describes the whole layout going dead is that the feeder is on one of the switched lines.
Here is the M2 layout:
1707954549311.png

For example if the feeder is inside that passing zone on the straight part. Then when both are switched the rest loses power.
 
If I can I’ll put my 2 cents in . The bypass is the only one section of my track that I put insulators in ( both ends of siding track but powered track on the other side of insulator (so siding track had power .) . I have 3 loop layout (3 crossovers ) and 3 powered turnouts and it runs fine all 3 loops . I hope I’ve explained it well enough for you I did not do anything to switches as far as powered non powered . Installed as it came out of box my layout is dcc .
mike
 
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I am red-faced and embarrassed to say that the problem is SOLVED.

Danny: I studied your illustration of the M2 and read your warnings and realized that I had the feeder track in the wrong place. Even tho it was on the mainline, it was BETWEEN the turnouts. (I did that because the feeder cable was too short and I needed it closer to the power pack.)
1707954549311a.png


When I moved the feeder to another location, everything works flawlessly. Embarrassed, but I have learned a lot.

This is one of the best boards I've encountered and I got a lot of great ideas and feedback from you all. Many thanks to everyone for your helpful interest and feedback. I'll be back.

Bill
FacePalm.jpg
 
baja463 said:
I am red-faced and embarrassed to say that the problem is SOLVED.

Danny: I studied your illustration of the M2 and read your warnings and realized that I had the feeder track in the wrong place. Even tho it was on the mainline, it was BETWEEN the turnouts. (I did that because the feeder cable was too short and I needed it closer to the power pack.)
View attachment 181342

When I moved the feeder to another location, everything works flawlessly. Embarrassed, but I have learned a lot.

This is one of the best boards I've encountered and I got a lot of great ideas and feedback from you all. Many thanks to everyone for your helpful interest and feedback. I'll be back.

Bill
View attachment 181343
Click to expand...
Awesome, you got it sorted
🙌
😁
Yep suspected as much, that was on reflection the only thing it could be without faulty points.
 
Glad you got it worked out . No need to be embarresed . I too struggled with kato crossovers and turnouts as far as wiring . I read to many online things and one always seemed to contradict the other so I just ended up doing what I thought was right .
mike
 
Bristolman2012 said:
Glad you got it worked out . No need to be embarresed . I too struggled with kato crossovers and turnouts as far as wiring . I read to many online things and one always seemed to contradict the other so I just ended up doing what I thought was right .
mike
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Agreed 100% if I had a quid for every time I did something wrong I would be able to BUY Elon musk
 
It also might be worth making a second feeder to other side of layout, the more the better.. this is because track + connectors add resistance, far more than a direct copper wire connection. But as I said above, you don't want any feeders in the passing siding lines here as it defeats the whole point of DC switching.

For DCC you probably want the lot powered all the time (I don't know DCC), but for analogue DC it's almost always better to have the power upwind of the switch.

Consider a DC controlled rail yard. You have perhaps 3 switches, meaning 4 "parking' lines for trains..
A---B===
. \ C===
The feeder is to the left of A, meaning you can now switch power to 4 different lines with combinations of ABC set to left or right.
 
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dgrafix said:
It also might be worth making a second feeder to other side of layout, the more the better.. this is because track + connectors add resistance, far more than a direct copper wire connection. But as I said above, you don't want any feeders in the passing siding lines here as it defeats the whole point of DC switching.

For DCC you probably want the lot powered all the time (I don't know DCC), but for analogue DC it's almost always better to have the power upwind of the switch.

Consider a DC controlled rail yard. You have perhaps 3 switches, meaning 4 "parking' lines for trains..
A---B===
. \ C===
The feeder is to the left of A, meaning you can now switch power to 4 different lines with combinations of ABC set to left or right.
Click to expand...
Good advice ... Thanks!
 
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