Industry choice opinions: Cement plant questions


Y

Yannis

Active Member
Hi all,

I am trying to finalize a hillside for an area of my layout (mid 1960s, ATSF, CA). I have chosen to put an industry next to this hillside and i want to see if a cement factory (which is my prime option after considering other industries at the given location) will fit nicely there.

1. The main question is if (given some selective compression), the rectangular grey area that i have is ok for placing a small cement factory subject to the size of the area and to the location immediately adjacent to a hillside.

2. Can i get by, using 3 tracks only (one for loaded hoppers, one for empties and one for boxcars/tank cars? (do i really need a 4th track for aggregates?)

The area i am talking about is the grey rectangle/polygon (20" short sides, 40" long sides approximately) on the right side of the layout (brown polygon is the hillside which will feature a road with possibly a gas station or diner)

The industrial track is not laid yet in the area therefore its more or less open game (apart from the turnout on the mainline with leads to the area).

I have seen the specs for the valley cement factory by walthers, (24" by 40" approximately) and that i would need some sort of packaging house for bagged cement plus adding a conveyor of some sort leading off the plant in order to bring limestone from a hypothetical nearby source and a fuel tank. I wonder if i could use this kit as a base for a cement factory on the area that i got.

Plan_Aindustry.jpg

PS. / OT. I have run my first trains and the trackwork/wiring is fine, no problems at any speed for both passenger and freight trains. I must take some pictures soon...

Thanks in advance for all the help
Yannis
 
Are you wanting to model a "cement factory" where they make cement or a "concrete blulk plant" where they mix cement and aggregates to make concrete? Two different operations, two different industries.
 
Dave, thank you for the reply.

I would prefer a cement factory (similar to Walthers Valley cement) and not a concrete/cement plant (similar to Walthers Medusa cement), simply based the fact that the cement plant would have more varied/interesting rail traffic. Perhaps i am wrong though and the concrete plant has similar traffic as well. Therefore i am open to suggestions!


Slightly OT:My main issue for picking cement instead of lets say some sort of manufacturing (furniture/plastics etc...) or Farm related industry, is that i think in CA next to a hill, a cement factory would make more sense instead of a manufacturing plant (including a distillery/brewery type of industry).
 
Got a site RIGHT down the street, they just mix concrete there and it is served by one track spur and trucks. They no longer use the track but they did a few years ago.
 
Yannis,

Sorry I can't help with your cement industry question but it is great that you have been able to run trains, and run them without an issue - congratulations mate.
 
Three tracks should be just fine, loads, empties, and boxcars like you said.
I love the Valley Cement complex and a small critter or track mobile would be perfect for switching.
 
That is quite an operation. I was going to post a photo of a cement plant which we have close by from Google Earth, but I can't email it. If you go to Google Earth and put in Trident, MT there is a cement plant there, and little else. Hope this my help you. It hasn't really changer in decades.
 
Chet i found the Trident plant you mentioned. It looks great and it is close to a hillside from what i have seen in the photo i found. Is it a cement plant or a cement distribution center / ready mix concrete plant?

Rico thank you for the heads up on the track number.

I am seriously concerned by looking at pictures and reading about the cement industry that a cement plant (with kiln etc and all the buildings where they actually make the cement) might be too big and look too cramped for the space i got. Maybe a cement distributor / ready mix combination industry would make more sense for the space i got?


All in all with my choice i would like to: (givens - druthers if i am not mistaken) succesfully combine the 3 issues below:
1.Pick an industry that fits next to a hillside,
2.Pick an industry that does not look out of place in the given real estate i got (see layout plan)
3.Pick an industry that makes sense for CA in the 50s 60s and has interesting/enough rail traffic.

For example, initially i was considering a brewery, then i realized after reading the relevant book about trackside industries, that in the 60s a brewery would need to be large enough to be rail served and that such a brewery would need much more real estate than i got next to this hill. So my #2 and #3 from above conflicted.

Fill free to chime in (even with other industrial choices).
 
It is a cement plant. They ship out by both rail and truck to concrete plants. We have a local concrete plant close by and trucks deliver locally and BNSF carry shipments to more distant customers. All of the materials to make the concrete are mined out of the hills to the east of the plant.

It is built into a hillside with the main plant along the Missouri River. If you go to the ground view you can get a better view of the plant, with freight cars lined up on a siding to the south of the plant. I have driven past it numerous times and flown over it while doing some recreational flying. It is an interesting industry, but I don't have it on my layout. Too large for my layout which is right set in this area.
 
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There are at least four cement plants in Southern California that come to mind, at Monolith, Lucerne, Victorville and Oak Creek (near Mojave). They are all more or less on hillsides. Naturally they need selective compression, but they're interesting choices for looks and operation.
 
Chet, i forgot to thank you in my previous post about the info, double thanks now about the extra details on the cement plant.


John, many thanks on the Californian input! Precious as always. At least i am set on the hillside and the CA suitability for the cement industry :)

I guess i ll have to pick either a cement distributor / concrete plant or to seriously compress the cement plant ( i haven't bought any kits yet, valley cement is an option).
 
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I agree with jwb. I bit of selective compression would be a good choice. For the mining activities you could show just part of it with the majority of it behind the hill out of sight, and the plant itself could be scaled down a bit. I am not familiar with the Walthers kit, but you may be able to come up with something. I believe that the footprint of the different buildings can be found and worked into the available space you have. I had to do that with the Walthers meat packing plnat and icing platform to make them fit into the space I had available on my layout.

............................................................................ Chet
 
Yep, i ll figure something out for compressing the plant.

I am thinking about kitbashing the existing structures to produce a smaller footprint. Also i could make the rotary kiln (i hope i got the description right) shorter and to add a conveyor from the plant towards behind the hill (off the layout) so that i can place the limestone mining off the layout.

Many thanks again!
 
Here is a distant overall view of the plant at Monolith. Pelle Soeborg kitbashed a version of this plant in an article in MR fairly recently.

Monolith_cement_plant_from_Hwy_58.JPG
 
How about putting most of the cement plant on backdrops as photos & just have whatever structures that are just trackside. That would save alot of layout space for other operating features.
 
John thank you for the picture. I ll re-read the MR article on Pelle's great layout to see the plant again.

Andy, i could consider this (using the backdrop). The question is, can i have a conveyor going over a double mainline track? If yes then i could have lets say the main silos and the packaging building (bagged cement) on the main layout and the rest of the buildings off the layout beyond the hillside. That could work if a conveyor goes from the on-layout silos over the double mainline and into the backdrop/hillside.
 
I worked for a bit at a concrete/ cement bagging plant. We received 2 different types of cement, aggregate and fly ash via rail. We also shipped some box cars of palleted bags of concrete mixes to customers. Yes, you could run conveyors over a double main. Many operations have hundreds of continuous feet of belts in operations. The place I worked had conveyors to the sand pits in the hills behind the plant.
 
whowey, thank you very much for the info (about the conveyors)!!!

Essentially, i ll put the hopper loading silos and the bagging building on the layout and run a conveyor from the silos, over the hill and into the backdrop where (off layout) the rest of the site will be (probably i can tackle a couple of the plant's buildings as low relief structures for a more 3d effect).

I am thinking of 3 tracks, stub ended (i dont have a room for double ended) about 3ft long each one, for empty hoppers, loaded hoppers, boxcars (bagged cement, bags - packaging materials). Possibly i could consider a 4th track for tank cars (fuel powered plant with underground tanks, therefore i need just a few pipes visible and no tanks) or have the boxcar track service the tank cars as well. I hope i can do that (ie use the same track for boxcars and tankcars) in order to avoid the spaghetti bowl of tracks. Yay i see an opportunity for a switcher locomotive here...
 
When I posted yesterday, I forgot about another SoCal cement plant, the one at Crestmore:

~
Crestmore_cement_plant.jpg


There are probably others. Also, I think cement plants in the area are either powered by coal or natural gas. Here is the coal unloading shed at Monolith:

Monolith_cement_plant_coal_unloader_3.JPG
 
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