I came, I saw, I planned a layout,...

[rgmccau]

I went to Hobart (Tasmania, Australia) for the first time last year, and saw the remains of the sidings around Constitution Dock/Franklin Dock. A few hours of scribbling back at our accommodation, and I had what seemed like a possible layout idea, namely an exhibition shunting layout with recognisable "Hobart" features - without being an exact copy. The layout will represent a fictional "now", with modern trains servicing the dock as if never changed. The layout wilol be called Derwentia.

Back home, I've been developing the plan, doing some investigation of the missing track/piers/etc, the logistics of how to make it fit together, and how to make a viable layout... and then I couldn't wait any longer, so I've started building - something...

I'll break the story up into several posts, but I hope people might find it interesting.

 

[rgmccau]

First, what drew my attention...

Inspiration 1 - The track (now unused...unusable?), set into the roadway, appears from behind a warehouse (actually the Customs shed), makes a sharp 90 degree left turn, crosses a shared road/rail swing bridge, makes an S bend to the right, a truncated siding curves off to the left (to a pier that no longer exists), crosses a shared lift bridge, then makes a sharp 90 degree left turn onto Princes Wharf, and disappears behind another warehouse (now serviced apartments). (Go to Google Maps to see the overall picture).

The swing bridge and S bend.

Inspiration 2 - Curving round onto Princes Wharf, the track swings out from the warehouse and runs along the waters edge. There is a short kickback siding as soon as the track straightens down the pier, and there is a second siding running the full length of the pier, next to the warehouse, but it is only accessable from a REVERSE crossover halfway down the pier.

Inspiration 3 - Displayed next to the lift bridge is an old steam crane that was used for unloading on one of the docks - it ran under its own power on rails about 15ft guage, but it isn't high enough to pass over the top of trains, so I don't know if it and the railway interacted directly.

The truncated siding (left), with the steam crane visible between the 2 cars. The lift bridge is through the yellow warning frame on the right.

Inspiration 4 - Tasmanian Railways are 3'6" guage, and had a large proportion of British built/designed trains in steam and early diesel days (more on this later). Modern rolling stock is comparable with the rest of Australia, although still 3'6" guage.

Inspiration 5 - In the background on both sides are substantial stone buildings, originally warehouses/factories including a major jam factory.

 

[rgmccau]

Layout Version 1

This is the original design I drew up in Tasmania.

The layout includes:
- Both road/rail bridges across the front. This is to provide the "Hobart" factor.

- 2 piers extending out from the layout, with the baseboard sides representing the edge of the pier. The pier labelled Wharf 1/2 will represent Princes Wharf, including the warehouse building (before it became accommodation), plus the sidings/etc. The second pier is totally non-prototypical and has an open unloading area on one side and a mineral unloading facility on the other (simply because I have 60 IHC short ore hoppers - and I want somewhere to run them).

- The rest of the layout has various sidings to port businesses, including the Customs shed and Jam factory, as well as hidden sidings to represent the rest of the world. Although there is a continuous track all the way round, it not (normally) intended to be used for continuous running and bridges/buildings should disguise it.

- The layout is intended to be viewed from all sides, as well as between the 2 piers. One operator would be inside for the hidden sidings, with other operators either inside as well or outside with the viewers.

- The layout uses 1.2m x 450mm baseboards (approx 4ft x 18in), which I chose because they will fit into a small car and can be easily picked up by one person (although 10 baseboards obviously won't fit into 1 car...).

 

[ICG/SOU]

Neat inspiration.

What does "Hobart" factor mean?

Thanks.

 

[Photogdad]

Looks like you got yourself a good start to your layout. And please update us on your progress.

 

[steinjr]

Neat inspiration.

What does "Hobart" factor mean?

From context, and taking a quick look at Franklin Wharf between Hunter Street and Elisabeth Street, in Hobart, TAS, Australia, the "Hobart factor" (i.e. the Hobart look and feel) is track in pavement, crossing over two combined road and bridges (one lift, one swing), with tracks curving in to serve low warehouses along the sea.

Turnouts seem drawn way too sharp for 4 foot long sections. At least if this is supposed to be H0 scale, and not N scale. I did a quick test with code 75 Peco small turnouts (which are pretty compact turnouts) of the lower right hand corner of the drawing, and see a few possible challenges:

I would recommend testing out the trackage with curves drawn to scale and turnouts drawn to scale - or making photo copies of turnouts and testing track configurations on the boards.

Good luck with your layout - looks like an interesting prototype to model!

Smile,
Stein, on the opposite side of the planet from you - near Oslo, Norway

 

[rgmccau]

Quick response to questions so far

- "Hobart factor" is the thing that hopefully will make people who look at the layout say "Oh, look it's a model of Hobart". In this case, the 2 bridges, Princes Wharf & the surrounding (backscene) stone buildings - although the physical orientation may not be correct, it's the feel that I want.

- Space, Curves & Trackwork. Curves will be 18" radius. As Tasmanian rolling stock tended to be quite short (although not strictly accurate in the modern era) I don't expect any problems (more on this later). Also the sharp radius will give the feel of the 3'6" guage and the sharp curve in the real thing. I may need to put in another 1.2m baseboard down each side - the diagram was my preliminary sketch, so proportions are completely out the window. The layout is intended to represent an extension of the main yard (as is the real thing), so trains arriving/departing are really only "shunts" back to the main yard, rather than main line trains - hence they will only be 5 to 10 wagons long, plus small shunting locos.

- I'm going to make the layout OO (4mm/foot on 16.5mm track) rather than HO (3.5mm/foot), but with a twist...

- Scenery, buildings, cars, people will be OO (4mm/foot). British manufacturers provide plenty of scope here, plus they are also right hand drive cars!

- 16.5mm track in 4mm is in fact "narrow guage" already (OK, not 3'6", but a start).

- Short wheelbase, shunting locos to fit (and handle the sharp curves) can be:
a) out-of-the-box Bachmann OO British Class 03/04 0-6-0 diesel shunters. These are close enough to a class of real Tasmanian locos.

b) Early US diesel switchers (SW7/9/etc), actually HO models, but with scratchbuilt 4mm cabs (which basically means "taller" doors and windows). Although not strictly correct, they are "in the spirit", also I have a couple of old Athearn Blue Box SW7 bodies to play with.

c) GE 44-Tonners, again with enlarged cabs.

- Rolling Stock. To keep with the "small" narrow guage stock, I intend to use HO (3.5mm/foot) bogie wagons (it's a modern layout, 4 wheelers aren't used anymore). By using US outline models - for example the IHC ore hoppers mentioned previously, or "modern" 40ft (in HO) flat cars etc - the larger US loading guage will also emphasise the narrow guage feel. Also I intend to have fairly "generic" modern types - flat cars for ISO containers, ore hoppers, 2 bay cement hoppers - so again they feel of the layout rather than specific prototype examples.

 

[rgmccau]

Layout Version 2

In the 6 months since I drew the original plan, I did some fiddling around, including trial and error on some pieces of board with actual track, and I revised things a bit.

Main changes are:
- Rather than try and fit an impossible curve from "Wharf 2" across the front, this track now heads the other way.
- The kickback siding has been extended to form a triangle. Just because I can (if it fits).
- The wharf with crane overhead has been will be replaced (although not indicated on the diagram) with a cement loading facility. This is to replicate the activity at Launceston (Northern Tasmania) as in the photo below, and also to use some Roundhouse 2 bay covered hoppers I have.

- The loco sidings (top right of diagram) will be replaced with fuel storage sidings to give more shunting capability, and to use US style 40ft single dome tank wagons - again HO models make a nice fit for real Tasmanian prototypes.
- The ore unloaded sidings are simplified, in keeping with the "extended shunt yard" idea, and also twisted round the corner of the layout because of space limitations.
- Changes to track and baseboard alignments, reality biting rather than anything else. I'm still not sure whether to use 3 or 4 baseboards down each side - More trial and error.

 

[Scordicus]

I'm liking the track plan, although a couple of things I'm not quite getting..

Am I right in thinking that between wharf 2 & 3 (in a straight line) would be water? If so, why would you have someone operating effectively from the water? Doesn't quite work for me - I think you would be better off for a multiple-operator session having two people on the wharf 1 & 4 sides respectively..

The second thing is why build in OO when HO is so much better?? As a Brit, I can honestly say that British buildings, figures etc.. are quite frankly just crap! (which is one major reason I model in HO lol) and the .5mm your going to gain, doesn't really make it noticeable enough as being narrow gauge IMHO...

 

[rgmccau]

Modelling - Baseboard number 1

Ok, without any further thought, I jumped in and started making things, just to see if it would work/look ok.

First up, Princes Wharf. Sides of baseboard will represent sides of wharf. Ledge at bottom will be water level. Box shows relative size of warehouse. Track has full checkrails, including the crossover (scratchbuilt onto baseboard using FastTracks paper templates), and will be recessed into the wharf top. Note everything is rough and ready. Painting was only to seal the MDF.

Full length view. 1.2m x 450mm

End on View. The structure of the baseboard forms the scenic effect. Water level is 42mm x 19mm pine. Wharf walls and top are 6mm MDF, with a 3mm MDF lip. Far end of baseboard (land end of wharf) is single piece of 90x19 pine to provide flat, solid surface for baseboard join.

Side on profile

The crossover made using 2 #4 right-hand templates. The chequer plate shows the eventual ground level.

Full length with representation of the warehouse including roof.

 

[rgmccau]

Modelling - OO vs HO

As I mentioned, the layout will be OO, so some visual indications.

First up, illustration of the difference between Australian and US loading guages. On the left is a HO model (Powerline) of an Australin 830 class DL351 Alco, on the right an Athearn SW7. These are both HO models - 3.5mm/foot - of comparable power and vintage locos. Notice the difference in height. Several 830 class were actually used in Tasmania (reguaged to 3'6") for a while in the 1980s, and many DL351s are still in use today around Australia - on 3'6", 4'8" and 5'3" guage tracks!

Next, introducing a HO Roundhouse 2 bay covered hopper into the mix. This still dwarfs the 830, but sits reasonably with the SW7.

And now, introducing some OO British models to compare with the HO US models - the British loading guage is comparable with the Australian loading guage, but these are 4mm/foot models. The 2 wagons are about the same height, as are the 2 locos.

The big difference from a (modelling) perspective, is in the proportions when comparing to things of "known" height - eg a door has to be the right size for a human (approximately 6ft), so the size of a loco can be gauged from the perspecrive of the size of the cab door. Here are the OO and HO cabs up close.

So, rebuilding the SW7 cab to "bigger proportions" would be...

And finally, the IHC Ore Hoppers. Close coupled in rakes of 5 is about 500mm long. 2 rakes, plus loco will fit on a baseboard - or wharf.

 

[steinjr]

In the 6 months since I drew the original plan, I did some fiddling around, including trial and error on some pieces of board with actual track, and I revised things a bit.

Looks like a cool project! I like your demonstration of turning the H0 scale American switcher into an OO scale switcher by lowering the floor and roof of the cab and making bigger windows.

Using only small rolling stock (i.e ore hoppers and 40' cars) also helps with the sharp curves you will get.

Still not totally convinced by all elements of the track plan, though - turnouts (switches) still seem to be drawn overly optimistic (although you obviously can do more special work with hand laid than with commercial turnouts), especially in the tracks on the lower end of the right side (below the entrance to the hidden tracks), and some of the track configurations will be pretty hard/annoying to switch - like the upper let hand corner, where you have a track configuration on the wharf like drawing A below:

The double switchback means that your wharf can only hold two cars (assuming an SW7 engine, 40-foot cars and Peco code 75 small turnouts) - one on the left half of the lower track and one on the right half, and you have nowhere to temporarily leave inbound cars while pulling an outbound car or holding outbound cars while spotting an inbound car.

You would have to fairly laboriously shuttle cars out to the tracks in the upper right hand corner (or the right leg of the wye) one by one before you can spot a new car.

By flipping the crossover (like in figure B), you gain some storage capacity on the left half of the upper track while switching, and it would be possible to pull one or two cars spotted at the left part of the lowermost track and temporarily stash them at the left part of the upper track before going into the lowermost track with one inbound car trailing the engine, back up, couple to the outbound car, pull the outbound car, leave it on the right part of the uppermost track and then spot the inbound car for the lower right etc.

The third configuration (just a simple turnout, no crossover/switchback) is the simplest and gives you the max amount of switching capability - you can reach in with a handle of inbound cars, pull outbound cars and leave the outbounds on the upper track, then spot inbounds before making off with the outbounds.

Even with the simplest track configuration, you can create quite a bit of work by not doing a straight all for all swap, but instead just pull one car, and not necessarily the one outermost on the track.

Grin,
Stein

 

[rgmccau]

Stein

Yes, turnouts will be handlaid. I agree about the general length and cramped conditions - that will just have to wait for trial and error.

On the 2 wharf sidings - that what's on the prototype! Still in existence today. Photos on the internet from the 1950s seem to agree, although I cannot guarantee what the sidings were used for nor how they were shunted as the only photos show locos being unloaded from ships. See http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum%20Ships/Ports%20Harbours%20Piers/slides/Hobart%20Wharf-01.html. I see it as a challange for the operators!

 

[steinjr]

Stein

Yes, turnouts will be handlaid. I agree about the general length and cramped conditions - that will just have to wait for trial and error.

On the 2 wharf sidings - that what's on the prototype! Still in existence today. Photos on the internet from the 1950s seem to agree, although I cannot guarantee what the sidings were used for nor how they were shunted as the only photos show locos being unloaded from ships. See http://www.photoship.co.uk/JAlbum%20Ships/Ports%20Harbours%20Piers/slides/Hobart%20Wharf-01.html. I see it as a challange for the operators!

Hmmm - had a look around that website - here is another picture from the same site showing more of the area:

Note that what looks like a crossover in your picture is actually the track that goes along Franklin Wharf (i.e across the bridges etc), and the tail track on the switchback along the sea is the length of the whole pier, not just 1/3 of the pier.

Looking at current trackage on http://www.bing.com/maps (entering Franklin Wharf, Hobart, Tasmania and zooming in to bird's eye view), current tracks at least seemingly goes like this:

From a different angle:

Of course, having that long wharf length switchback tail there along the sea at upper left (instead of the right leg of the wye in your plan) would also make it a bit more challenging to get from Franklin Wharf (bridges) into Elizabeth Street (top side of layout).

Something like this:

But by all means - I'll stop picking at your track plan - it will be interesting to see how the layout turns out.

Smile,
Stein

 

[rgmccau]

I will have to check my memory. :-(

 

[PaulB]

Ok, without any further thought, I jumped in and started making things, just to see if it would work/look ok.

First up, Princes Wharf. Sides of baseboard will represent sides of wharf. Ledge at bottom will be water level. Box shows relative size of warehouse. Track has full checkrails, including the crossover (scratchbuilt onto baseboard using FastTracks paper templates), and will be recessed into the wharf top. Note everything is rough and ready. Painting was only to seal the MDF.

Full length view. 1.2m x 450mm

End on View. The structure of the baseboard forms the scenic effect. Water level is 42mm x 19mm pine. Wharf walls and top are 6mm MDF, with a 3mm MDF lip. Far end of baseboard (land end of wharf) is single piece of 90x19 pine to provide flat, solid surface for baseboard join.

Side on profile

The crossover made using 2 #4 right-hand templates. The chequer plate shows the eventual ground level.

Full length with representation of the warehouse including roof.

Ross,

found your old thread. Is this wharf layout still around? By adding a traverser (maybe hidden in a warehouse), you can turn this into a generic switching micro layout,

Cheers, Paul

 

[rgmccau]

Ross,

found your old thread. Is this wharf layout still around? By adding a traverser (maybe hidden in a warehouse), you can turn this into a generic switching micro layout,

Cheers, Paul

Yes, sitting in my garage, hidden somewhere in the pile of stuff my son is storing there...

Ross

 

[PaulB]

Ross,

glad to hear it's still around. I am very impressed with the full check rails. Maybe you will have to pull it out and continue with it one day? Have a look at the late Carl Ardent's site for inspiration:

http://carendt.us/


I was looking at your new plan but I didn't want to comment on the other thread because the discussion would get tangled up with the other fellow's discussion. Can you copy it over here or start a new thread?

Cheers, Paul

 

[rgmccau]

Yea, I was in two minds whether to start a new thread, or post on his, also it was 3am, so... Probably I will start a new thread, possibly when i have a few more photos, and maybe finished the track and general building work on the top level (scenery will be "eventually"). In a few days (going away this weekend), so I'll post a link on this thread and the other when I do.

I've been following Carl Ardent's site for a couple years.