Howard's Hobby Ansonia CT

[MGWSY]

I did not know about the other show so maybe that is the case. I was not going to request he order something special and I was actually going to bring them back in person. All I wanted was a refund. These cars are still in the boxes the came in and now where did I see "ALL SALES FINAL". I was even considering doing more business with him but not anymore.

This is where research comes into play. Look around to see what the RR you model has for rolling stock and locos. Special cars like the business train are easy to remember. I use to do the same for the RR I model (CR) and now try to stay more focused when I realized a lot of stuff painted for CR never existed. Manufacturers do that to this day on cars and you just have to research by finding pics, reading books, watching online videos, etc. It would piss me off to have something that I though was real and found it it wasnt but it was a learning experiance and I dont do that much anymore. Oh and BTW True Color Paints makes PW Orange and Brown!
TCP-118 Providence & Worcester Brown
TCP-119 Providence & Worcester Orange

 

[dispatcher812]

This is where research comes into play. Look around to see what the RR you model has for rolling stock and locos. Special cars like the business train are easy to remember. I use to do the same for the RR I model (CR) and now try to stay more focused when I realized a lot of stuff painted for CR never existed. Manufacturers do that to this day on cars and you just have to research by finding pics, reading books, watching online videos, etc. It would piss me off to have something that I though was real and found it it wasnt but it was a learning experiance and I dont do that much anymore. Oh and BTW True Color Paints makes PW Orange and Brown!
TCP-118 Providence & Worcester Brown
TCP-119 Providence & Worcester Orange

Thanks for the info on the paints.

I have decided to keep the train as a different version. As MGWSY said above, I will learn from this and be better prepared for next year. I was not even looking for this when I went to the show and I did by them up pretty quickly.

 

[MGWSY]

It was the same thing when I bought the P2000 CR Executive E8's! When I started to compare them to the real deal they werent even close. I ended up getting rid of them when I found the Overland Brass 3 unit set for a steal so I snagged that up real quick!

 

[UPBigBoy]

Your first picture show a streamlined car, what you purchased were the earlier heavy weight passenger cars used prior to the streamlined coaches. As long as the colours are close you should keep them - they'll look good behind a steam locomotive.

 

[Dave S]

... they'll look good behind a steam locomotive.

This is what I think will eventually bring him around. They're going to look good behind not only a steamer but any P&W engine.

Having said that though does anyone know if a rounded nose observation type like that has been modeled by anyone?

This would look good behind any period passenger train.

 

[otiscnj]

Consider it a leason learned.

Many years ago, when I was sort of new to the hobby, one manufacturer came out with a particular locomotive (C424), painted in local road name(CNJ). At the time, there were very few factory painted locomotives in CNJ, so the loco caught my attention at my LHS. At the time, I didn't have the money to purchase it. Eventually, it disappeared. I learned about a year later, as I learned more about the CNJ, that they did not have any C424, let alone in the scheme depicted.

At the time, if I had bought the loco, I might have eventually been disappointed, as it was not prototypical. On the other hand, it would have made me happy at the time, to have a loco painted in a 'contemporary' paint scheme of that railroad.

I saw the model in several shops at the time. Did I ask any of them if it was prototypical? No-the thought didn't cross my mind. Did any of them place a sign near the item that it was a fictional piece-no. So who's fault would it have been if I had bought it, then found out afterwards, that it wasn't prototypical?

What I took away from the experience is that its up to me to be familiar with the prototpye, as well as knowlegeable about the product I'm buying. Most things in this hobby are mass produced in some way or another. Knowledge of both the prototype, and what models are availabe on the market, are the best gaurentee that you won't end up disapponted.

As for the dealer, you're putting him in a difficult place. I'd be interested in finding out if, and how he responds. My bet would be that he wasn't attempting to decieve, but may not have been knowledgeable about every aspect of the P&W roster. It'd be different if say, you bought it from the P&W Historical Society, under a sign that said 'all models for sale prototypically accurate.' Then it would be fraud.

I think chalk it up to 'buyer beware,' 'do your homework,' and 'any transaction represents an 'arm's length' activity between buyer and seller.'

 

[blackz28]

come here , big man hug they still look like nice cars . what do you have for locos ? just outta curiousity

 

[Pete V]

I am viewing this from a slightly different perspective and I am trying to get a handle on it and I am definitely not trying to be judgmental. I just am trying to understand the line of thought.

In rivet counting land it seems to me that there is a fierce adherence to the prototype, at least in the rolling stock and engines. How fierce is the path to madness I think about? If something has been purchased that brings genuine pleasure and is later found to be sporting the wrong number of rivets, who is that bothering and why? Is it bothering the purchaser because they feel like they didn't get the real deal when it's clear they didn't know what the real deal actually looked like in the first place, or are they concerned about what someone who really knows "X" railroad would say if they saw the layout? If it's the former, I suspect that scratchbuilding is going to be the only real option in may cases since the most minor of deviations is bound to send the collector into a depression and then you have to ask yourself if you have the requisite skills to do that scratch building. I sure don't. . If it's the latter, then I think the railroad is being built for some wispy judge who looks and gives a blessing or walks away , thumbs down leaving you humiliated. That scenario, I really hate.

I live in the world of modern art at this point and the discussion constantly revolves around what is art and what isn't. If it isn't, the gallery owners sort of spit in your general direction and you're dismissed. So the definition gets to be pretty important. Whether you made the work by yourself becomes a subject of scorn. Andy Warhol figured out a long time back that doing an oil painting took a lot of time but the litho press could really crank out Marilyn Monroe. In the renaissance, artists like Michelangelo or Da Vinci had up to 400 employees cranking out statuary for the Roman Catholic Church. Today, it's all called art. The modern guys are all dissing work which they say is just "craft" so it's not important. The reason for that is that the pool of collectors of fine art is very finite and every time someone new throws a line in the pond, it's competition.

If you look at John Allen's railroad, it's revered as a masterwork. It certainly is one in my mind but there were quite a number of people who thought it to not be so. It wasn't accurate. It had alligators in it ( which it did). It did impossible things like having five trestles all one on top of each other. For me it was just beautiful. It had equipment that never could have been in service but it was beautiful. Can't beauty ever be enough?

At what point does building the railroad just make you crazy? If the engines have to be just so, and the tonal shade on the cars has to be just so, what about the structures? Are they all prototypical? How about the trees?. At what point does it stop being fun at all and rather just be OCD?

 

[rhoward]

Caveat Emptor!

 

[Espeefan]

This is what I think will eventually bring him around. They're going to look good behind not only a steamer but any P&W engine.

Having said that though does anyone know if a rounded nose observation type like that has been modeled by anyone?

This would look good behind any period passenger train.

You might check e-Bay for brass cars. Older Soho stuff is going pretty cheap these days, though I couldn't guarantee that window spacing would be correct. Passenger cars varied so widely fronm railroad to railroad, even among pullman sleeper configurations. There were differences between floorplans of 10-6 sleepers for instance. You might get pretty close though. I would research the car. Where did the P&W get it? Smaller RR's often bought such equipment used. So did the class 1 RRs for that matter. Maybe if the original owning road could be identified you would find an accurate model is on the market. Passenger train modeling can be tough, and expensive if you demand strict prototypical accuracy. I know. I've dropped a rather large amount of green on specific cars over the years. It took me about eight years to build my SP Lark which is a combination of brass and painted undec Walthers cars.

As for prototypical accuracy in the market place: research is the buyer's responsibility. Always has been...always will be. Dealers don't know, and there have been foobies as long as there have been models! About the only place you might have a case is if you were buying from a historical society who presented the models as prototypically correct. Enjoy the cars, and remember there is nothing wrong with stand ins. I used them for a long time before I could afford the correct stuff. I enjoyed the train just as much.

 

[abutler]

Well said Pete V

 

[dispatcher812]

come here , big man hug they still look like nice cars . what do you have for locos ? just outta curiousity

Quite a few. I currently have 12 locos in various PW paint from the early orange and white to the PW logo on the side to The current scheme. Gp38's B40-8s, and even the U18. Link here to my fleet. http://fitzsimmonsphotography.smugmug.com/Other/MIsc-stuff/20258962_gT2F4k#!i=1601661933&k=DN6hFff

And now that I look even closer, none of the locos actually match. These cars will fit in perfect.
Lessen learned. Now to start building.