HO questions; where to find...

[vintageiron]

Hi, I am totally new here. Sorry if I posted this in the wrong section.
First let me introduce myself! I am from Seattle, WA and I love the wet, green, rainy Pacific Northwest! I love my alder smoked salmon and the smell of pine! When I move into a house and have space, I'd like to build a fictional RR layout that is Northwest themed from around the 30s-40s with big industry steam locomotives. I want to include docks with fishing boats, a saw mill, maybe a steal mill, lots of brick buildings, a pine forested area, things you mostly see up here in the northwest.
I am looking for a place to find some of these trains on my list. Does anyone know any great catalogs or places online? Ebay is crazy and overpriced sometimes, if you can find what you want. I know a lot of these are not northwest trains, but I'd still like to have them for my collection.
A lot of these I don't even know if they make them in HO like the Class 59 4-8-2+2-8-4. I have a taste for unique locomotives along with the big industry classics of the 30s-40s. Can anyone tell me of they make these in HO? A lot of them I've seem many times before and some I've never seen like the one mentioned above. I know I didn't post this in the wanted section, but I don't even know if they make all of these. Maybe you can help me go through the list and verify them, and maybe suggest places to buy.

My second question; does anyone know what this cylinder is? I had a book with lots of photos of locomotives with this on the front and wondered what is was and where I can find some like this.

Below is my locomotive list. I know some of them they do make, but I've just posted the list off my PC. Heck, if you have one of these and want to sell, you can always email me.

Any oldtime 4-4-0
Class F15 4-6-2
K4 Class 4-6-2 (standard and Stream lined version if I can find one)
4300 Class 4-8-2
Class A 4-8-2
Class Ps-4 4-6-2
Class J3a 4-6-4 (standard and streamline)
Class F7 4-6-4 streamline
Class I-5 4-6-4 streamline
Class GS-4 4-8-4
Class E4 4-6-4 streamline
FEF-3 4-8-4 Union Pacific
Class T1 4-4-4-4
Challenger 4-6-6-4 Union Pacific
Big Boy 4-8-8-4 Union Pacific
Class J 4-8-4 streamline
2900 Class 4-8-4
L-2a Class 4-8-4
Niagara Class 4-8-4

Royal Hudson 4-8-4
Class 59 4-8-2+2-8-4

 

[vintageiron]

Oh I forgot to mention; all of these trains where found in "The Great Book of Trains" by Brian Hollingsworth and Arthur Cook. Portland House publishing co.

 

[Rico]

Hi and welcome!
I'm not a steam guy so can't help with much, but i think the tank in the photo is called a feedwater heater or something of that nature. (?)

 

[Littlefoot14]

I think Rico is right, i think it preheats the water before going to the boiler.

Youve got a wide range of locomotives there, size and time-wise. 4-4-0s were the main engine in its time period in mid 1800's while the Northerns ( 4-8-4's) Challengers and Big boys were used from i think the 30s right to the end of steam in the 50's. Theres a large variety of makers for most of those type of locomotives listed, it mostly depends on the quality you want and how much you wish to spend. Id say you should narrow down your choices, unless your just collecting. However if your doing a freelanced layout, maybe you could model a railroad museum, and run passenger trains behind all your favorite locomotives. Just some suggestions

 

[trailrider]

That cylinder atop the smokebox is an Elesco feedwater heater. I'm not even a partial expert on how steam locomotives are plumbed, but I do know that a feedwater heater, as its name implies, preheats the water before it is pumped into the boiler. This adds energy to the water, and helps the boiler create superheated steam. There were other types of feedwater heaters, primarily the Worthington (which is usually a big thingy on the left (fireman's side) of the boiler plus a box on top of the smokebox, along with other components), and (more rarely) the Coffin-type which is sometimes mounted on the front of the smokebox, and is difficult to discribe. The Elesco heaters were sometimes mounted on brackets, as in the photo you posted, sometimes partially buried in the top of the smokebox, to reduce the height on large boilers.

Piping and other details varied widely from railroad-to-railroad and from locomotives on the same roads. The best thing to do if you are modelling a particular road is to find some books on that road's steamers.

What size locomotives you may ultimately choose will partially depend on the size of your layout, and the minimum radius of your track curves. Many of the larger engines will require large-radius curves, fixed wheelbased ones like a 4-8-4 MAY require 22-inch and larger. (On the other hand, I've kitbashed 2-10-2's with all but the end drivers "blind" (without flanges) that will run on 18-inch curves.) Some articulated locos will run on tighter radius curves, but may be fairly pricey.

Welcome to the world of model railroading!

 

[vintageiron]

I looked it up and it looks like everyone is correct; it's a feedwater heater. I've found some sites online that sell kits to add this to most locomotives.

As for my list; Yes I want to do an era layout but I know that the list of trains I am looking for are a huge range and from different railways from around the country and world. These are trains I just like and want to collect as they are some of my favorites. So I know that if I run them on my layout, they won't be correct for the time period or location, but they are ones I will run just for fun when the mood strikes me.

I'm also looking for trains that were run during that time up here.

I really like George Sellio's Franklin & South Manchester. I wanted to do something like this but more like a Seattle/Northwest layout from the 30s-40s. One element that I always thought would be really cool would be to have a waterfront from that time with a ferry, but it's hard to find a boat that is close to the ferries from 30s-40s and I'm not good at making my own boats.

 

[vintageiron]

Also, what rail lines operated up here in the Northwest during that time? I know of Northern Pacific, Burlington Northern, and Union Pacific, but I'm not sure.

 

[Littlefoot14]

Off the top of my head:

Great Northern
Western Pacific
Northern Pacific
Milwaukee Road
Chicago, Burlington and Quincy

 

[vintageiron]

Milwaukee Road, Chicago? That's interesting. I've seen Santa Fe up here but I'm talking 30s-40s for my layout and I only know what's been up here over the last 30 years.

 

[trailrider]

Don't forget Spokane, Portland & Seattle.

 

[Littlefoot14]

Milwaukee Road, Chicago? That's interesting. I've seen Santa Fe up here but I'm talking 30s-40s for my layout and I only know what's been up here over the last 30 years.

The Milwaukee Road spread from the Wisconson/Chicago areas all across the north to Oregon.

Chicago, Burlington and Quincy made it to Montana, which is somewhat NW.

Santa Fe did not reach the northwest until it merdged with the Burlington Northern in 1996. Burlington Northern was the product of the merdger of the Great Northern RR, the Chicago, Burlington and Quincy RR, the Northern Pacific RR, and the Spokane, Portland and Seattle Railway in March of 1970. So the Santa Fe and Burlington Northern are not something you'd see there in this era.

The Union Pacific had lines in Oregon in the 1930's, they still do today.

 

[vintageiron]

Spokane, Portland & Seattle had their own RR Co?

 

[Littlefoot14]

Spokane, Portland & Seattle had their own RR Co?

Yes, they were built by the Great Northern RR and the Northern Pacific RR to build a line on the north bank of the Columbia River in 1905. In 1970 it was leased to the Burlington Northern and eventually merdged in 1979.

 

[vintageiron]

I used to see Santa Fe up in Seattle before they merged in 96 though. It was probably due to the BNSF merge that was soon to come though. I doubt they were here in the 30s-40s

 

[Littlefoot14]

I used to see Santa Fe up in Seattle before they merged in 96 though. It was probably due to the BNSF merge that was soon to come though. I doubt they were here in the 30s-40s

Most likely just power lending. Railroads often use each otheres equipment based on whats available in the yard at the time. Ex. A Union Pacific train is assembled with some UP power but its not enough. So they add in some BNSF locomotives to make the train move. Eventually Union Pacific will loan out some power to the BNSF to make up for it. This is why youll often see trains with mixed roadnames on the lead power. Examples include BNSF paired with UP, CSX mixed with NS, and CN in consist with CP. In the era you plan to model, i dont believe there was much going on in the way or power lending, i think locomotives pretty much kept themselves to their home roads.

 

[UP2CSX]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Washington_railroads gives you a list of every railroad that now runs or has ever run in the state of Washington. As you'll see, there are lot of them. Many of the locomotives you list, if they were made at all, were only made in brass, and they can cost $800 and up each. You can do a search of www.walthers.com to see which ones are currently available. Unless you have unlimted funds, I think choosing two or three of your favorite roads will cut the list down to a more manageable size. It won't do much good to have all your favorite locomotives but have no money left to build a layout.

 

[vintageiron]

Thanks for the Link!
I have noticed that must are in brass. The 4-8-8-4 seems rare, but you could get it back in the 80s from most hobby shops for around $200. Now I seem them for $800+...
Most of these I will collect over time as it looks like most are available. I agree on the idea of more budget for the layout. I'd like to put in a street car like Seattle's.
One of the locomotives I really like and would like to find one is this R-3a 4-8-2 (I think?). It features the feedwater heater and has the right look. Not sure what era it is though. I want it to be my freight workhorse on my layout. It might be a little earlier then the era, but it can be an old engine still in service that's pulling the freight through town.

Anyone know where I can find one?

 

[Littlefoot14]

IHC, MTH, Athearn, Overland Brass, Bachmann Spectrum all made the 4-8-2. I believe the 4-8-2 had a few different names. The New York Central called them Mohawks, others called them Mountains.

The 4-8-8-4 isnt particularly rare, just expensive. Several manufactuers made them. Try search 4-8-8-4 Big Boy when you do.

Are you sure you have the space to run these large locomotives? The majority of those steamers will require a minimum of 22", most likely 24" for better operation.

 

[jayl1]

Here are a few more - Blue Mountain RR, Columbia & Cowlitz Ry., Lewis & Clark Ry., Rayonier (logging),St. Regis Pulp & Paper (logging),Simpsdon Timber, Washington Central, Weyhaeuyser (timber), and at least 100 logging lines - many that lasted only a few years.

 

[jayl1]

Spokane, Portland & Seattle had their own RR Co?

I believe they were taken over by the Burlington Northern.