Help wiring atlas turnouts for dcc

[x-craft]

I posted this elsewhere on the site and have not gotten a response. Don't ask why I didn't post it in this catagory to start with but here I am now. I'm really hoping somebody can help me out with this relatively simple probably stupid question.

I'm new to model Railroading aside from playing with toys when I was a kid. I'm running DCC and am working on getting my track layed out, with that nearly done I'm getting close to wiring and have run into a question.
Do Insulated Atlas code 80 turnouts need to be isolated from the rest of the track? I've found countless instructions on how to wire a track and every one of them seems to show each leg of the turn out being isolated from the rest of the track to prevent shorts. One thing that doesn't make sense is that if all these different feeders that are powering the track all run off the same buss won't a short still take down everything.

I plan to run a main buss line using 12ga and run feeder drops every 3-4ft using 20ga wire tied into the main buss probably using terminal strips unless I cheap out and just decide to solder it all together instead.

Any help would be appreciated here, thanks in advance and I look forward to getting in knee deep in this hobby.

 

[Toyguy]

I'm new too so take this with a grain of salt but I don't think you need to worry about it unless you are using a reversing loop with a wye or something like that where the track can come back on itself. I've had a simple outside oval, with switches leading to an inside track and some sidings and just used regular joiners.

Nice thing about DCC, at least the NCE I use, is that it detects the short and shuts down immediately. Then you can go about removing the short and going on to the next one.

Now if you had conducting frogs, then you need to do something with those I know for sure, but insulated frogs should be pretty easy.

 

[x-craft]

Toyguy, thanks for the reply and what your saying is exactly as I suspected. It's just contradictory to what I've found including the DCC wiring book I have. The book I have doesn't make any distinction between insulated and non insulated turnouts nor does what I've found online which just makes things confusing for somebody new to doing this. To a veteran this is probably a really stupid question and I'm guessing thats why there is so little response here. I appreciate your taking the time to help out.

 

[fast_ian]

Hi,

OK, I'll give it a go;

Firstly, I think you're confusing insulated versus "power routing" T/O's - The legs of the T/O will always be powered, but the frog must be insulated from the rails as otherwise there'd be a dead short there all the time! (Both rails pass thru it).

Now, in the "olden days", with single axle pickup and variable voltage (DC) some locos would stall on this insulated frog as one wheel lost conductivity. The "workround" was to power the frog itself with switched polarity depending on which way it was thrown. This adds significant complexity to the wiring.

With DCC (and a nice constant ~16v on the rails) coupled with multi axle pickups live frogs aren't required IMHO (I'm sure others will disagree!)

Assuming you don't have any reversing loops (where the track turns back on itself) you just connect your wires to each rail (as often as you feel necessary) and you're done - No insulated joiners required, anywhere!..... Life is good!

Some good info here: http://www.loystoys.com/peco/about-insulfrog.html

As to a short taking everything down - Yep, as described (a single power block) a short will indeed shut the whole layout down. If your layout is big enough to need multiple power supplies then you'll build it using blocks (each supply powering different sections) and then a short only takes out that one "block".

HTH, cheers,
Ian

 

[x-craft]

Thanks Ian, I have my answer now and thank you. One more quick question though, would you solder all your rail joints? I was going to do just that but I've started soldering on my feeder wires and have added them so each section of flex track has it's own power. I was thinking the only reason to solder is to

A. Keep the rails aligned properly over time as the joiners might allow for a little slop as things age.

B. Soldering where there are short sections of track where you might not want to run a bunch of feeder wires.

I still may solder all the joints just because it seems like a good thing to do. I'm just looking for another opinion

Thanks
Tim

 

[fast_ian]

Thanks Ian, I have my answer now and thank you.

You're welcome

One more quick question though, would you solder all your rail joints....

My 02c - Short answer; No!....;

- Even in our tiny scales "stuff" expands & contracts at different rates - I'd "stagger" the feeders across, say, 2-3 lengths of flex track - One rail is soldered, the other gapped and then reverse at the next joint. [Does that make sense?.....]

- Solder, while pretty "strong" should never be considered "structural" - It *will* crack (and then drive you crazy with intermittent faults!) if loads are applied. Do not use solder to hold track in place - Get 'er right and then solder (every other joint or so) for conductivity, not "strength".

Cheers,
Ian

 

[x-craft]

I have much of my track layed and have been running trains looking for troubles and fixing before soldering as you suggest. What you suggest for soldering the rails makes sense, if I understand correctly only solder one of the rails on each joint but alternate them as I go. I will do just that, I would not have thought of that without your suggestion. My layout is in my basement and while it's finished it gets cold down there in the winter unless I run the heat which I usually only do on the weekends when I'm working down there so there is much need for the allowance of expansion and contraction.

Again, thanks for the suggestions. Things sure have changed from the old days of throwing together and oval on the kitchen table with two wires to run everything.

Regards
Tim

 

[fast_ian]

I have much of my track layed and have been running trains looking for troubles and fixing before soldering as you suggest.

Good idea - The track will "bed in" with use - "stresses" come out etc.... Then solder as you see fit - Do not use solder to try and fix, eg, a kink however!

solder one of the rails on each joint but alternate them as I go.

You got it. No need to be religious about it - Bigger gap(s) and soldering on a straight makes sense for example....

..My layout is in my basement and while it's finished it gets cold down there in the winter unless I run the heat which I usually only do on the weekends when I'm working down there so there is much need for the allowance of expansion and contraction.

I'm in a "temperate" climate, but it sounds like you *really* need to think about gapping the track - Good luck!

Cheers,
Ian