handlaid versus off the shelf turnout?


VTRailway

VTRailway

Active Member
Looking for advice. Looking at building a multi level N scale layout. The lower level with staging yard and interchange yard plus a hand full of industries has the better part of 60 turnouts. I used anyrail software. In this I selected Peco med and large radius turnouts. I'm torn between hand laying the track and buying store bought turnouts. I like the idea of saying I built everything including the track but I also get hand laying track is tedious and time consuming. I found handlaidtrack dot com. They seem to have tons of tools and gadgets to make the turnouts and other items of a railroad easier (notice I didn't say simple) and with repeatable results. For the tools to build #6 and #8 code 55 turnouts is $475 not including the PCB ties, wooden ties or rails.
Curious if there are hidden benefits to building your own versus store bought. They state the hand laid rails are more reliable. I will admit that non hinged rails are appealing to me. While I'm not in a huge hurry to complete this project, I also would like to be able to run trains before I die.... Also curious if anyone hand lays straight and curved track or just uses off the shelf flex track. I've used atlas code 80 in the past. Short of the slip rail being a bit flimsy in the ties, I've had no issues with it. I do plan to have a 36" double track helix in this multi level layout too.
 
I’m in HO but I use Code 83 flex track and Peco unifrog switches.
I had a few N scale layouts and went the same route, just easier and faster to get going.
Having said that I’ve never really tried making a switch in either scale but have tried hand laying track in both and then went with pre-fab.
To get up and running quicker I laid main line track first then cut in switches as I acquired them later, might work for you.
 
I think you may have answered your own question already at the end of the quoted text:
VTRailway said:
Looking for advice. Looking at building a multi level N scale layout. The lower level with staging yard and interchange yard plus a hand full of industries has the better part of 60 turnouts. . . . . . They state the hand laid rails are more reliable. I will admit that non hinged rails are appealing to me. While I'm not in a huge hurry to complete this project, I also would like to be able to run trains before I die....
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It is true, hand-laid FastTracks turnouts (which I've experimented with) do look better and avoid the hinged point rails... but (as you have mentioned) they ARE very time consuming to build. If I was in your situation, I'd want to get as much of track laid as quickly as possible, starting with the main line tracks first - so I could have the satisfaction of seeing my trains run. Then - before putting down any scenery - maybe try building a few of the hand-built turnouts and replace some of the Pecos with them. I think I'd probably suffer from burnout if I spent a large amount of time doing ALL the hand-laid stuff before getting a chance to run any trains.
 
So I'm not a quick thinker typically. After posting this it occurred to me. I won't be able to start building this layout until the bedroom has been given a facelift. Removal of a border near the ceiling, fresh coat of paint on the walls, ceiling and then carpet. Once all of this has been done, I can start building the benchwork. In the meantime I will continue tweaking my track plan. During all of this I'm also moving my shop (hopefully) and expanding my business. I don't see anything being built on the new layout for awhile. Likely a couple months. While waiting for time to get started on the new layout, I could build the turn outs ahead of time. This would allow me to focus on something other than cars and feel like I'm making progress on the upcoming layout build.
 
Handlaying track won't take forever, but it does take time to get proficient. I laid about 24 switches (and about 50 ft of track, HO) in a couple months. I don't use the fixtures and have been doing it for a while. My layout has been under construction for about 4 years and I have about 100 handlaid switches and 400 ft of handlaid track. Using the track laying fixtures cutting down the time it takes to generate a useable switch. The biggest challenges are learning how to file the rail and then to solder it to the ties.

The best case would be to see if you can borrow or rent a fixture and try building a switch to see if its something you want to do. Even getting some PC ties and rail and try to make some generic track will let you see if like making track.
 
I can make a Fast Tracks type hand laid turnout inside of 30 minutes. They perform better than any commercial ones I know.
 
I have another question about hand laid turnouts. Prior to the thought of hand laying, I was using peco electro frog turnouts on my small test layout. Hand laid would be the same electro power routed frog. Peco turnouts can be moved with a host of turnout machines. What can the hand laid turnouts be moved by and how reliable would these be long term?
 
VTRailway said:
I have another question about hand laid turnouts. Prior to the thought of hand laying, I was using peco electro frog turnouts on my small test layout. Hand laid would be the same electro power routed frog. Peco turnouts can be moved with a host of turnout machines. What can the hand laid turnouts be moved by and how reliable would these be long term?
Click to expand...
Hmmm, don't know where my post to this thread went, but seems everyone else has said about what I would have said...

For this one, the answer is that the points of a hand laid turnout can be moved with almost any motor you want to use. Most of mine were powered by some sort of stall motor like the original "switch master" or "tortoise". Also have used the GSB screw drives (think they were rebranded as Mann-Made), but just about anything you can connect to the throw bar will work. These type of drives are very reliable and some have adjustable throw mechanisms that can be tweeked if future adjustments are needed.

I cannot speak to the reliability of twin coils in the long term.
 
Handlaid turnouts normally have an insulated frog that you have to power with auxiliary contacts. There are lots of different mechanisms you can use. Caboose throws, toggle switches, slide switches, and Tortise/other powered mechanisms. The choice you make is just a reliable and lasts as long as it would with commercial switches.
 
I can make a Fast Tracks type hand laid turnout inside of 30 minutes.
Click to expand...

Yes, but you still have to lay ties, fasten it in place, paint it, ballast it, wire it, etc. It takes 30 minutes to assembles the rails, but there still is more time required to get it to where it's a functioning switch. When you figure in all the parts it takes an hour or two.
 
Dave I really appreciate your thoughts and responses to the questions I've asked. The last question I have is this; if one decides to operate a handlaid turnout manually, how do the stock rails stay in place? In peco turnouts there is a small spring that keeps the rails in the desired direction. I assume that if using ground throws such as caboose or toggle switches these can keep the rails in the desired position. However if I chose to operated the throw bar tie with my finger or small tool like a rix pix, how do I keep the rails in the desired position?
 
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Been awhile since I touched anything model railroading related. Decided to start putting my small room sized layout together. Started with the hidden staging and reverse loop section as it will also support a small hidden work bench foo. Figured I’d give hand laid turnouts a try to see if it was feasible. Id say yes. This was my first that took me 2 hours using jigs and a template. Still need to cut isolation gaps, add ties and a center spring but overall id call this a success so far. True test is how trains roll through.
 

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You can build a spring system like PECO uses for handlaid switches, it's more visible though. The two obstacles to using just a spring to hold the points are stiffness and electrical contact.

One of the reasons commercial switches use the hinged points, is they flex more easily. It takes less pressure to move them and keep them in position. With a bending point system, whatever thing that hold the points in position has to overcome the springiness in the rails themselves. If you are using code 55 or code 40 rail it's pretty flexible so the spring effect is minimized. It is still there though.

Many of the commercial systems use contacts on the points and points electrically connected to the frog to power the frog, or use dead or insulated frogs. A dead or insulated frog is a dead spot in the track and short wheelbase engine might stall. Using the points to route power to the frog can result in shorts (that system is considered "not DCC friendly") and if the points aren't clean can result in bad contact and dead spot over the whole switch.

Both of those things are risks, not guaranteed failures. If done properly and maintained, they might operate flawlessly. If not, then they can be a point of failure.

Some people have used a small SPDT or DPDT slide switch mounted between the head blocks, where the switch stand would be, and mechanically connected to the points to both hold the points in place and power the frog.
 
I haven't cut the isolation gaps into the turnout but plan to. Once isolated, the frog will be power routed with a tortoise or slide toggle switch. The hidden storage will likely be a manual throw via the slide toggle switch.
 
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