First Time Layout

ModelRailroadForums.com is a free Model Railroad Discussion Forum and photo gallery. We cover all scales and sizes of model railroads. Online since 2002, it's one of the oldest and largest model railroad forums on the web. Whether you're a master model railroader or just getting started, you'll find something of interest here.


therealdeal753

New Member
Hey all, thanks in advance for you help/suggestions. This would be my first layout, and although I have been interested in model railroading for a while, I have just now taken the plunge. My dad is really into trains, and although he has dozens of locomotives and collectibles, he hasn't built his own layout. So it looks like I'm going to beat him to the punch, lol.

I have drawn out what I feel like would be a good layout for me to start out with. I am going with a 5' by 9' layout, and my main goal is to allow me to have two separate loco's going simultaneously on separate tracks. I am going Digital, and I am thinking about going with the Zephyr from Digitrax. But back to the layout, I want to have a mountain with tunnel or tunnels on one side, with a good sized bridge. I was thinking about doing a mountain on both sides, but then I need room to have turnouts. Any suggestions?

I doubt I have room, but have any of you ever seen a mountain setting on one side, and then a beach setting on the other with a bridge going out over the ocean in a circular fashion to bring it back?

Thanks!
 
Welcome to the forum! You did not say what scale you will be using. I'm guessing HO scale.

The first thing to remember is that this is YOUR layout. So even if no one has gone from mountain to seashore in the way you describe, that's no reason YOU can't do it. Whatever makes you happy!

On a practical note, a layout of this size and shape requires that you be have access to both the front and back of the layout. Otherwise, you won't be able to reach the back of the layout during construction and operation. In other words, you can't push the back of the layout up against a wall. Thus, a 5 x 9 layout requires a large room, something like 10 x 12 feet minimum.

If you have a room of that size, there are almost always better, more interesting configurations than a big rectangle. For ideas, take a look at Byron Henderson's Layout Design Gallery:
http://www.layoutvision.com/gallery/index.html

There are tons of other track plans on the web. Take a look around before you decide.

- Jeff
 
Welcome to the forums! And exactly what jdetray said, it really doesnt matter if you have seen something done or not, do what you want! And yes be sure you can access the layout from all 4 sides with those dimensions. Our layout is a U shaped layout with 2 of the sides against walls, and those sides are just 3 feet wide (this is even pushing it, as most say 30" is the optimum lenght for an arm reach). Any questions you may have I am sure can be answered in this place, so dont hesitate to ask and goodluck!
 


1) Whether it is smart to do a rectangular table with a loop of track on it depends on what kind of space you have available for your layout. If the space you have available is where you formerly had a ping-pong table, a rectangular table with aisles on at least three sides (both long sides and one short end) can work.

If you have less space or space that will have to be up along a wall at one long side, try a different footprint - preferably one that leaves as much as possible of the room available for co-existence with other uses of the room.

A classic walk-around 5x9 foot layout will totally eat up all floor space in a 9 x 11 foot bedroom - allowing no other use of the room - not even shelves on the walls, since you need headroom while using the aisle around the layout.

The same room would possibly support far more scenes for a surround style layout - whether you cut a 30" wide operator pit/aisle in the middle of the table or whether you move the layout out to the walls:


2) You can do two visually very different scenes on a rectangular layout - especially if you make it possible to use a vertical view block/dividing wall down along the spine of the table, so you have to walk around the table to see the other scene.

The illusion gets better if the ends of the layout also have view blocks, so you can't see down along the central divider and see both scenes at the same time.

Splitting a rectangular table layout into two scenes with a backdrop/view blocking small wall means that you absolutely must have access aisles on both sides of the table - not much point in having backside scene you cannot see or get to.

You can get even better visual separation of scenes if you can arrange your layout so the two scenes are on opposite sides of you - one in front of you and one behind you - i.e. some kind of walk-in or duck-in pit in the middle of the layout for the person running the trains and the persons watching the trains run.

Doing a figure 8 loop on a table will make it very hard to create visually believable separation of scenes - unless what you are trying to model is an amusement park roller coaster ride.

In general - having the same train pass through the same scene many times - weaving in and out of the scene, or passing through the same scene multiple times on alternate paths as part of the same run tends to detract from realism and create what is known as "insincere scenes".

Some visual illustrations of these concepts:

Classic 5x9 foot table with visual dividers and walk around aisles in 9 x 11 foot room:
5x9-classic.jpg


Hollow 5x9 foot table with central operator pit and low viewblock walls around edges (so people watching can stand and look into the layout over the edges, while the person inside can sit on wheeled chair and operate the layout from the pit):
5x9-doughnut.jpg


An around the walls layout in a 9 x 11 foot room, pushed all the way out to the walls, with a removable section in front of the door into the room - allows the maximum coexistence of the layout with other uses of the room - with other things using the space below or above the layout on the walls and the center of the room being open):
5x9-walls.jpg


There are many variants on these footprints, and one can mix and match narrower shelf style "look into" parts of the layout with wider "walk around" tables to fit a layout into a specific room, with specific location of doors, windows, fireplaces, cupboards etc.

3) I think a model railroad tend to look more interesting when it seems like there is some purpose for the trains to run.

I.e. when it is not like "the train starts from here, do 15 laps around the layout, and then go back to park in exactly the same place it came from initially. Repeat".

That is a model that works well if what you are modeling is the Indy 500 or some other racing car event - where the whole purpose is to go around and around the loops fast.

If you want to model a railroad, think like this: "A train will shortly arrive (or have just arrived) at this place. What is it carrying? What will it do while being here? What will it do when it is done here - where will it go to next? Will it have to interact with other trains - e.g. wait in a siding for another train to pass through?".

4) The choice of modeling scale greatly affects hos much you can fit into a given space. The smaller scale, the smaller radius turn back curves, and the more run length (relative to the length of the trains) in a given space.

Many people automatically assume that H0 scale is the default choice. Considering N scale may give them a lot more layout in the same amount of space.

Two different uses of the same space from a different thread:

H0 scale duck-in layout
room-h0scale.jpg


N scale walk-in layout in the same spot:
room-nscale.jpg



5) But in the end, it still is your layout. Doesn't matter one bit what I or anyone else thinks would look best or be most interesting.

Hope I gave you some possible ideas without stomping too badly on your toes or discouraging you too much by making things too complicated.

If what you want is to take a standard track plan and create an amusement park ride with multiple paths through the layout, where the train will duck in and out of tunnels and weave back and forth through the landscape while you sit on a chair and watch it weave around, rather than modeling a train doing something, then that is what you want and that is what you should do.

There will almost always be enough time to try other approaches later - hardly anyone who is young or middle aged and gets bitten by the bug will stop at just doing one layout in their lifetime :-)

Smile,
Stein
 
The figure 8 in the center of the layout creates two reverse loops which will be a wiring challenge for anybody. Also when you enter the figure 8 you will need to go in reverse to get out of it. Move one of the crossovers to a different area to avoid this.
There are a lot of great 4x8 layouts in books that can be expanded to 5x9.
Steve
 
Hey all,

Thanks a lot for the input, definitely a lot of information that definitely helps me go in the right direction. The room that I am putting this in, is a fairly large room that is above the garage. My wife and I currently don't go up there very often, it is where her sewing stuff is and an extra TV and a couple of couches. I will take dimensions of the room when I get home later today. I am now considering utilizing the space a lil better. With maybe going with a 'U' setup, or maybe a long 'L'. However, no matter what I do with my railroad, I have to keep space in the room for my wifes sewing machine, and eventually, when we have children, I will have to move my desk/computer into this room as well. Another reason I was thinking about keeping it in a rectangle, was that eventually we plan on moving (5 year plan), and who knows what kind of setup I'll have room for then (hopefully more, but you never know).

What kind of program do you all use to draw your plans out? I have the atlas program, but haven't spent too much time trying to figure it out yet, found its just been easier for me to draw.

Thanks again!
 
realdeal...

It would be wise to revisit how best to use your space. The 5x9 is probably not the best shape. Here is a link to a commonly referred to layout to show what can be done with a roughly similar amount of lumber that you would use for your 5 x9 table.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_OWJKbUUCx...600-h/Heart+of+Georgia+HOG+Layout+Rev+511.jpg

It is linked to show how you can get four different and larger scenes from an around-the-walls shape compared to your center table design. This shape expands your possibilities. For example, you could make one side 6 inches lower than the others and create a 4 foot long bridge over a wide river. This scene would not interfere with the other three. Try that with a single table top layout. If you wanted to have a track cross over another, you can have a dummy track located below or above the operating track in a mountain scene and have two other scenes left over. Also, you can have another scene with longish yard tracks placed on the outside of the loop with their ends abutting the wall. Compare that to the short yard you're trying to squeeze into one of the loops. The last scene could be a beach scene. All 4 scenes are physically separated from each other, unlike the single table top layout.

The HOG uses excessively narrow shelves to solve the issue of using only a 4 x 8 piece of plywood for the surface. If you had the ability to make each of the four table tops 24-30 inches deep, you would have much more space for depth and to to properly transition from scene to scene compared your 5 x 9 table top.

The around the room design probably requires more time for carpentry than the large table top, but no more complicated. Just the time to build 4 table tops instead of one.

And as far as relocating to another house, the 4 table tops can simply be unscrewed from each other and moved. (when attaching the tables to the walls and being supported by legs, there is no need to secure the narrow table tops to each other with anything more than 3 or 4 screws.) IMO, it would be more likely to find suitable space for several of the table tops in your new house than it would to locate a room large enough for a 5 x 9. You could save more of your layout.

The major drawback with the around the room design is the duckunder needed to access the center. But I think most modelers are preferring to trade the one disadvantage for the many advantages.

Nothing wrong with having your heart set on a 5 x 9. If so, I would use a center viewblock as opposed to trying to make the entire layout one scene. You want your first experience to be satisfying, and spending time and money trying to scenic something that you may not be happy with in the end may discourage you from staying in the hobby. Its tough to build what your mind visualizes, especially when it comes to scenery. So simplifying the process by physically separating the scenes with a block helps a lot. The around the walls design does this more naturally.
 
Another reason I was thinking about keeping it in a rectangle, was that eventually we plan on moving (5 year plan), and who knows what kind of setup I'll have room for then (hopefully more, but you never know).

So you build your layout in about 4 foot long and 15-30" deep sections, which are bolted together, but can be taken apart and moved when necessary.

If your new room is differently shaped, you add sections, remove sections or make new transition sections to connect existing sections to fit the new room.

Like this
DSCN5779.jpg



What kind of program do you all use to draw your plans out? I have the atlas program, but haven't spent too much time trying to figure it out yet, found its just been easier for me to draw.

I used Xtrkcad.

Hard to learn, but like most power tools - a time-saver once you have learned how to use it.

Smile,
Stein
 
Exactly what steinjr said, build it in sections and it will be no problem even if you want to move it. We are renting a house now and plan to buy eventually, but that hasnt stopped us from putting a 18'x16'x16' layout in the basement. It is made up of 3x8' sections, and the oddball section here or there. One thing to keep in mind though if you plan to build it in sections is to remember that the joint will be seperated, so anything you have over the joints needs to be removed, cut, etc, to come apart. Ive seen some pretty structures cut in half and scrapped because of poor planning lol
 
What kind of program do you all use to draw your plans out?

Drawing by hand is good for sketching out ideas, but in order to learn if your ideas will actually fit in the space available, you will eventually want a more accurate method. Even using graph paper, a compass, and a straightedge will be an improvement. Pay careful attention to the turnouts. Hand drawn turnouts are notoriously inaccurate. Turnouts are actually much more gradual and occupy a lot more space than we imagine when we draw them by hand.

There are plastic templates that help you draw more accurate track plans:
http://www.kissmethodinc.com/

Track planning software is even more accurate, of course. Like Stein, I also use XTrackCAD. It's free, and it is available here:
http://www.xtrkcad.org/Wikka/HomePage

XTrackCAD comes with track libraries for all popular brands of track.

- Jeff
 


Hey all, sorry about the delayed response... thats what happens during the holiday.

Well, after more research and thinking about what I should do with the space I have available. I have decided much like what you all suggested was to go with a layout that utilizes the space better than just a 5x9. The area I am going to be using is a only 6 feet deep, and is 8'4" wide. I have been playing with XtrackCad, but its taking me a while to get the hang of it and figure out what buttons are what. I would like do a similar layout like that of Byron Henderson did at http://www.layoutvision.com/id57.html . I would like to have two full loops though.
 
Here is another drawing of what I had envisioned for the layout so the space is maximized. I will continue to work on the computer to get a digital copy and get the Radius's correct.
 
Could you move the yard lead to the right side, and have much longer yard tracks?
 




Affiliate Disclosure: We may receive a commision from some of the links and ads shown on this website (Learn More Here)

Back
Top