First layout planning... Take 2


Well, i took my previous sketch and tried to work it up in XTrakCad. Good news is, it all appears to fit. (sigh of relief). I did eliminate the crossovers to simplify wiring and to simplify the cad file since i'm still fairly inexperienced with the program.

Minimum radius is 16" and minimum turnout on the visible portions of the layout is #6, with #5 on the staging yard.

I await comments on how viable the layout is, how to make it better, or other critiques. I still plan on working with a around the room plan similar to PCarrell's plans... thanks for all of the comments guys... you've been a ton of help!

... suggestions??????

http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd258/chas_kev/FROGV3.jpg
 
I have three. And I suggest reading the conversation going with DJShaggy about the difference between designing a layout in which a train goes places and does things as opposed to products and raw material going places facilitated by a railroad.

1) Increase your staging by using curved turnouts as soon as it crosses the divide. You'll be able to store much longer trains and have an ease of getting in and out of staging in one large double-sided yard.

2) Join the track at [8, 0] and [0,4] to make a single main with two reverse loops. This will give you more realism and increase your operational complexity. You will still be able to have continuous running.

3) The yard needs a little work to make it more functional. You have room there for a spectacular yard. Combine it with the small passing siding as siding can be superfluous when next to the yard. The yard master would handle the pass.
 
This is definately an improvement over your original plan.

If I might suggest, the walkway is pretty narrow for quite a distance. It can be eased quite a bit. Also, you need some passing sidings so your trains can stop and switch the sidings without blocking the main. These were just some quick things I spotted right off that would be easy fixes.

I didn't really look at the yard, so there may be some work there that could help. The yard should probably be tied back to the main to make it accessable from both directions. I'll look more at that later.

I made a few changes. The changes in red are something worth strongly concidering. The black changes aren't as important, though maybe I should have done the walkway in red.

Anyways, here it is.....

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j319/pcarrell/Track Plans/FROGV3.jpg
 
Nice plan Kevin! mine is far too complex I think...:eek:

Jos
 
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SpaceMouse said:
...I suggest reading the conversation going with DJShaggy about the difference between designing a layout in which a train goes places and does things as opposed to products and raw material going places facilitated by a railroad....

.....
2) Join the track at [8, 0] and [0,4] to make a single main with two reverse loops. This will give you more realism and increase your operational complexity. You will still be able to have continuous running.

......
Click to expand...

I have been keeping an eye on that thread, although i dont feel like i really "know enough" to contribute much too it. Regardless, i'm not 100% sure that i fully understand what comments your trying to make regarding my layout, so that i can make improvements. I envision two means of getting products to my model. One is the port, and the other is the two entrances from the staging yard. These will bring products to my layout, as well as be the final destination for many of the products they produce. Very few of the industry i've highlighted will inter-relate, and maybe thats what you're trying to point out. The scrap yard could send product to a steel mill for recycle i suppose. and if i have a sand mine and a granite quary, then maybe i should consider a concrete batch plant for one of my unassigned industries.... could you please clarify your statement.... or was it just a suggestion that i read that thread as well???

With regards to your comments about joining the track. My origional sketch did show crossovers near those locations. How do you feel the following three options stack up.
1) keeping the track arangement as-is but adding crossovers.
2) Joining the tracks so that a reverse loop exists at each end of a single mainline.
3) Option 2 with several passing tracks.

I suppose that option 1 essentually makes one large passing track. Option 3 acutally reduces operational complexity over what you propose doesnt it?

I'm very currious what you think about the matter. Maybe even more from a conceptual standpoint, not just in reference to my layout... If i want to increase operational complexity, maybe i should move my biggest industry near to my yard to create something of a "log jam" that opperators would have to sort out.....
 
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd258/chas_kev/FROGV3b.jpg

I think this is an improvement... joined the mainline... but salvaged part of it for a passing siding which could double as a location for a way freight to layout cars for the nearby industry. Considerably reworked the yard. It is now much more functional for dropping off arrival trains, sorting cars, rip track, outbound train tracks. Plenty of room for the switcher to get out of the way of a road engine dropping off or taking out cars...

... all in all, i feel this is a vast improvement. And i'm slowly but surely getting better at imagining how my trains will move around the layout.

I know the staging area still needs work... but i'm having trouble with the curved turnouts....

please continue to suggest ways to improve the layout... everyones time and effort have been greatly appreciated.

I would never have gotten this far without all fo the Help!!!!!!!!!
 
OK, looks like you're starting to get close. I can see real improvement in this plan.

You still have a couple of things to work out. The most major is the yard lead. There are a couple of table edges that could be rounded to ease the "people room", and you need a passing siding on the left side of the plan so I added that and rerouted one track to make it flow a bit better in the new configuration, but for the most part you're there.

I outlined what I thought were the issues right on the plan.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j319/pcarrell/Track Plans/FROGV3B.jpg
 
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I keep thinking I'm going to get a slice of time to comment on your plan fully. Perhaps you could email the .xtc file and I could play with it a bit. It might be easier than trying to explain things. Most of Phillips ideas are good with the exception of missing that the top right area behind the backdrop is staging. Send the file to spacemouse@vitaconnect.com.
 
Thanks for the Comments Philip, They are greatly appreciated.

I'm not sure if you have been keeping close tabs of my plan progression or not... but the yard got completely overhauled in this last itteration. I downloaded the .pdf on how yards function and tips on how to design them and i immediatly realized yards were much more complex than i first thought! As a matter of fact i think it could be great fun just to model one big yard!!! Regardless, i was trying to really take Chip's comment "You have room there for a spectacular yard" and run with it... see my thouhts on the attached link. I may have missed the point of the yard lead, but i thought it was just a means of getting the switcher out of the way... if thats the case i think i've accomidated for that... not that its abbundently clear at first look, i was trying to create a compound ladder, or at the very least be able to gain some additional lenght to sorting tracks...
 
SpaceMouse said:
...... with the exception of missing that the top right area behind the backdrop is staging.
Click to expand...

Whoops! Missed that one!

Chas_SC_Kev said:
Thanks for the Comments Philip, They are greatly appreciated.

I'm not sure if you have been keeping close tabs of my plan progression or not... but the yard got completely overhauled in this last itteration. I downloaded the .pdf on how yards function and tips on how to design them and i immediatly realized yards were much more complex than i first thought! As a matter of fact i think it could be great fun just to model one big yard!!! Regardless, i was trying to really take Chip's comment "You have room there for a spectacular yard" and run with it... see my thouhts on the attached link. I may have missed the point of the yard lead, but i thought it was just a means of getting the switcher out of the way... if thats the case i think i've accomidated for that... not that its abbundently clear at first look, i was trying to create a compound ladder, or at the very least be able to gain some additional lenght to sorting tracks...
Click to expand...

I caught all of that, and I think I see what you're after. The thing I was trying to get at was, of the two yard areas, the left-most one has no lead. I see what the one track I had a question about was for now, and that makes sense if it's to be a yard (not so much if it's an engine terminal). Notice though that the lead you have in the lower section only feeds the righthand yard and not the left. If a train pulls into the left yard and needs to be broken down, the goat would grab a string of cars from the A/D track and back off of the A/D track to clear the turnout before it can push the cars into the yard. Since the A/D track doesn't have a lead, the goat has to back onto the main with the string of cars, effectively blocking the main, right? It's not a deal killer, but it's something to consider. Or maybe I'm looking at this wrong?

I kind dig the idea of two yards that can be worked seperately by two loco's at once but sorta work together though.
 
pcarrell said:
Since the A/D track doesn't have a lead, the goat has to back onto the main with the string of cars, effectively blocking the main, right? It's not a deal killer, but it's something to consider. Or maybe I'm looking at this wrong?

.
Click to expand...

DOH!!!! How did i miss that!!!!
 
There's a lot of track in that area. It's an easy thing to miss.

Like I said, sometimes the prototype does use the main for switching when there isn't other room, but they try not to, and so should we if we can help it.
 
Okay, take this as a sketch as there are some obvious problems, Use the ideas you want and scrap the rest. The problems are the track too close to the edge in the upper left, and the A/D tracks are way too short.

With the arrangement you have, staging doesn't work as:

StagingDiagram01.JPG


So I stopped the pretense and maximized it as:

StagingDiagram03.JPG


Personally I would eliminate the two reverse loops and add a bridge from stating to the other side to go back to the first schematic.

It is common to have industries off the yard so I had no qualms about attaching to the yard lead. The yard switcher might switch those industries anyway. It makes it a bit awkward if you were to do continuous running and operations, but since it doesn't make sense to really to have a through train coming through the yard lead I figure you won't be letting your trains run while operating.

frog3.gif
 
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