Enamel vs. Lacquer paint, what's the difference?


S

Sverk

New Member
Hi,
Excuse an old beginner's simple questions:
I am confused by the terms Lacquer paint and Enamel paint. What's the difference?
How do they relate to Floquil railroad paints?

I happen to have a couple of Humbrol Enamel paint jars and thinner bottles, quite old but it seems they could be used after some thinning. Would they be useful for airbrushing on a laser-cut structure kit?
Sverk
 
Sverk,

My interpretation of the difference is one is solvent based and the other water based. Floquil is evidently a very good paint, now taken over by Testors from what I understand, so it is/could be hard to find. If you were looking for a solvent based paint for air brushing then I would look at the Tru Color range of railway paints. They are a very good paint.

As for using old humbrol paint for air brushing - I wouldn't even after thinning it out. No particular reason other than I wouldn't trust it.
 
Enamel at one time referred to oil based paints that dried to a hard, usually glossy, finish.

More and more the term is applied to any paint, be it oil based or water based, that dries to such a finish.

But you know marketing types, if a term helps a product sell, the marketing folks will apply it, no matter how much of a stretch.

Floquil paint is no more, having been discontinued by the maker, Testors.

You can likely find some still.
 
I was fortunate enough to get a half descent supply of floquils as well as polly scale paints.
 
Generally speaking, all paint is made up of three components: a pigment, a vehicle, and a solvent.

Pigment is the material that gives paint its color. Pigments can be organic or chemical, but pigments have nothing to do with how the paint is classified.

A paint vehicle is material that bonds to pigment and remains on the surface once the paint dries. The vehicle is what gives paint its protective properties.

A solvent is any liquid that dissolves the vehicle to make paint liquid in the bottle or can. Note that a solvent does not have to be a chemical. Water is a solvent if it dissolves the vehicle in a given paint.

Enamel paint is one that both dries and cures once applied to a surface. As the solvent evaporates, the vehicle undergoes a chemical reaction making it harder and less soluble than the liquid paint. This is why you typically can't remove fully cured enamel with the same solvent as in the original paint.

Lacquer only dries it does not cure. The solvent evaporates with no chemical reaction. This is why water- based lacquers can be dissolved with water long after the paint has dried. This is also why applying multiple layers of lacquer can result in the underlying layers dissolving.

"Acrylic" refers to the vehicle used in paint and not with how the paint reacts once it is applied. The vehicle in acrylic paint is a form of plastic and there are both "acrylic enamels" and "acrylic lacquers". There are also both petroleum-based and water-based solvents for each of these acrylics, depending on the vehicle formulation.

For years, modellers, hobby shop owners, and even "experts", have referred to modelling paints as either enamel/ lacquer (meaning that the paint uses a chemical solvent) or acrylic (meaning that water is the solvent). This is just plain wrong and only adds to the confusion. Try adding water to a petroleum-based acrylic enamel and you quickly realize that not all acrylics are water-based.


Mark.
 
fcwilt said:
Why do you think Lacquer does not cure?
Click to expand...

There's no chemical reaction when lacquer dries. There has to be a chemical reaction for something to "cure".

By definition - When paint dries, the carrier (typically water in latex paints, a solvent in oil based paints) evaporates, allowing the paint to form a film. As the carrier evaporates, other chemicals that act as stabilizers evaporate as well. The stabilizers prevent the paint curing in the container. Once they start to evaporate, other chemicals in the paint are free to react with each other to form new chemicals. Usually these are small particles of polymers (think plastic) combining to make larger particles of polymers that effectively form a large sheet.

The paint will not achieve its full strength until it is completely cured..


Mark.
 
The last time I used Lacquer on a set of end tables I made the can and the paint store told me that it would take 30 days for the Lacquer to cure before I could buff it.
Thinned with Lacquer thinner.
Old car Lacquer used to dry fast and you could buff it the same day.
Professional guitar makers let their Lacquer cure also.
 
There's more than one type of lacquer as well. There's Urushiol-based lacquers, Nitrocellulose lacquers, Acrylic lacquers and Water-based lacquers to name the most common.

This is getting way beyond the scope of the original question however. The initial question was based on the difference in model paint .... my initial response was based on that and I still stand by it. We'd be opening up a MUCH broader conversation if you want to include automotive finishes (interior and exterior), furniture finishes, etc..

Mark.
 
Forum:

My personal opinion on why many of the "older" lacquers and enamels model paints are disappearing from manufacture's product lines is product liability. So many hobbyists spray paint in basements and spare bedrooms without proper ventilation creating potential heath hazards. Also, the acrylic paints are perhaps so much more user friendly and many can use water as their solvent.

Manufactures are worried about costly legal woes when the end users misuse their products or use them in a way that is contrary to the products use. Look what happened to the original three wheeled ATV's or Lawn Jarts!

My two cents worth.

Greg
 
Actually, blame the EPA. Lacquers fall into that category of banned substances. Here in Canada, automotive lacquers have been banned for a number of years. Go to an automotive paint supply store, and you can't buy lacquer even if you wanted to. I have no doubt, this too is why the model paint manufacturers are making the conversion to less volatile (VOCs) products - they are just plain not allowed to make them any more. Automotive manufacturers here in Canada have been using water-based paints for over ten years now.

Floquil changed from being a lacquer to being an enamel way back when Testors took them over.

Even Microscale has been affected with their printing inks. Flex agents and binders that were once used in their printing inks are now banned. Anyone that uses their decals to a great extent surely has noticed they now have to use a white underlay with their mid range colors to ensure opacity. The components that originally made these mid-tone colors opaque are now banned, making the current inks somewhat translucent requiring the white underlay to make them opaque again. Have you noticed how the ink seems to be brittle now ? Cut through the print and the edge flakes off ? Again, the flex agents and binders have been banned.

It's not the manufacturers fearing of lawsuits from the end users, it's the government telling them what they can and cannot use .... and those rules are getting tighter every year.

Mark.
 
From what I hear, pure hearsay, as of about 5 years ago Lacquer automotive paint was still available in the USA.
To buy it you had to prove you had the proper air cleaners or what not to keep it out of the outside air.
I guess this equipment was pretty expensive and not worth the price.
As per my son, most use urethane of some sort.
He tells me it takes lest paint and can be sanded or buffed the same day.
Ain't a paint expert myself, just what I have heard.
 
Aaah, my little question stirred quite a discussion. And the reasons for that seems to be that ther are no simple answers, quite a complicated and confused situation. I'll be trying things out and returning to Mark's overview when I need it.
I have made a few tries with my Badger 150, 30 years old and very little used, didn't wor at first, but after dunking it in Tamiya Airbrush Cleaner for a few days and cleaning it all out, it started to work just as it should.
Tried it with some jars of Floquil and DioSol, 30 years old as well, and it worked surprisingly well on a lasercut structure kit.
Although I have a homemade spray booth and a respirator mask I figure I will be turning to water-based paints, Vallejo Air and PollyScale are the more readily available here. Cleaning will be the decisive factor, so much easier in water/alcohol than messing around with thinners.
Thanks for all your comments,
Sverk
 
Sverk .... Thank you for asking this question.

Mark ... Thank you for the detailed responses!

This is a very informative thread, I love it!
 
wombat457 said:
Mark,

Who makes Urethane Air Brush Paint please?
Click to expand...

Two easy to find manufacturers are Wicked and Auto Air, but have a care. Urethanes are demanding. You can get very high levels of detail from them but you have to be very thorough with your prep work. Urethanes are also more expensive, and clear coating is needed to get the most out of them. What sort of work are you wanting to do that you would want to use urethane paints? I can refer you to a couple of good forums depending on your answer. Is this for your Motorcycle work?
 
Sverk said:
Aaah, my little question stirred quite a discussion. And the reasons for that seems to be that ther are no simple answers, quite a complicated and confused situation. I'll be trying things out and returning to Mark's overview when I need it.
I have made a few tries with my Badger 150, 30 years old and very little used, didn't wor at first, but after dunking it in Tamiya Airbrush Cleaner for a few days and cleaning it all out, it started to work just as it should.
Tried it with some jars of Floquil and DioSol, 30 years old as well, and it worked surprisingly well on a lasercut structure kit.
Although I have a homemade spray booth and a respirator mask I figure I will be turning to water-based paints, Vallejo Air and PollyScale are the more readily available here. Cleaning will be the decisive factor, so much easier in water/alcohol than messing around with thinners.
Thanks for all your comments,
Sverk
Click to expand...

If you are using a 30 year old 150 and having trouble with acrylics you may want to trot down to the LHS or go on line and get an H (heavy) head and needle. If memory serves badger offers F (fine) and M (medium) heads. My 150s came with M heads. I stopped using them long ago, but I had to switch to H heads for acrylics because the fluid passages in the older guns are not large enough for the coarser pigment grinds in some acrylic paints which gave me a lot of grief with plugging and tip dry. It helped but in the end I upgraded my equipment.
 
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