ModelRailroadForums.com is a free Model Railroad Discussion Forum and photo gallery. We cover all scales and sizes of model railroads. Online since 2002, it's one of the oldest and largest model railroad forums on the web. Whether you're a master model railroader or just getting started, you'll find something of interest here.
I am trying to find out information on how many and what kind of cars GN had in their empire builder consist. What I would like to know is how many sleepers they used, how many baggage cars they had and how many coaches per trip, if any one has information on this subject or where to find the information let me know thanks.
I am trying to find out information on how many and what kind of cars GN had in their empire builder consist. What I would like to know is how many sleepers they used, how many baggage cars they had and how many coaches per trip, if any one has information on this subject or where to find the information let me know thanks.
Those are good references given in the prior posts. Which Empire Builder are you looking to set up? I always say there were generally 4 "eras" for the Empire Builder. The original streamlined, the Century Builder (1950), then the domed Empire Builder (1955), and finally the observation less builder (1967?).
Since you will be looking at the prior posts you can compare to my memory for the 1955 version.
baggage RPO
baggage dorm
coach
3 dome coaches
ranch lounge
3 sleepers
dinner
great dome
2 sleepers
observation.
As I recall there were three different types of sleepers. A 6-5-2 (pass series), a 7-4-3-1 (river series), and a 6-4-1.
But I see that is only 15 cars, a generic normal Builder had 17 so I am missing something.
thank you for the links, as far as the era, I am curious as to the empire builder during the late 60s when GN went to Big Sky blue, during the one year BN took over to even the first year of Amtrak mainly because they used the same rolling stock.
thank you for the links, as far as the era, I am curious as to the empire builder during the late 60s when GN went to Big Sky blue, during the one year BN took over to even the first year of Amtrak mainly because they used the same rolling stock.
The big difference between the 1955 builder and the Big Sky Blue era would be the absence of the observation car. They were converted to coaches. I don't remember when the mail contacts went away but the RPO would have left the consist at that time. Then finally would be train length.
A picture that it says is the 1967 builder in big sky blue.
The consist is:
two baggage
baggage dorm
lounge (ranch)
coach
3 dome coach
great dome
diner
5 sleepers
I don't think so. There is no note about it in Car Names Numbers and Consists book by Wayner. Observation cars were an artifact of a more elegant way of travel. They were too expensive to run in the end. I would expect the cost of a conversion of a coach back to an observation would have been cost prohibitive even for Amtrak.
Amtrak cars could have come from any railroad. How were they painted? A GN paint scheme with Amtrak lettering? If indeed they were former GN cars then they were probably the Parlor-Observation cars from the International (#1195 and #1196), or the mountain series Buffet-Observation (#1290-1295) from the Western Star, and there was at least one cafe-observation (#1147) from the Red River. It is easy to forget about all the other trains/cars a given railroad had. I know at least one of the Parlor-Observations is now in Private Varnish service today. It has been repainted back into the Orange and Green scheme. I saw it at the PV convention here in Denver about a decade ago.
Update. I just found another note that says that #1147 was also converted to a coach.
Also if the Amtrak car is in BN colors it could have been from the NP or CB&Q that had oval end observations cars originally used on the NCL.
I don't believe that was a Burlington car, as it is smooth-sided, not with the fluted corrigations that the "Q" ran. Probably an NP, but maybe from a Canadian road.
Yes and no. The International was a specific GN train that ran from Seattle Washington to Vancouver BC. It started in 1950 as the International Limited. It lasted under BN until Amtrak in 1971. I said Internationals because there were two train sets so one could be north bound while another was south bound. The train sets made the trip three times a day under three different train numbers as below:
355 southbound 8:10 A.M.
356 northbound 7:45 A.M.
357 southbound 12:30 P.M.
360 northbound 1:30 P.M.
361 southbound 6:25 P.M.
362 northbound 6:00 P.M.
There is also an International Limited that was run by the Grand Trunk and some other line, CN probably toward the other coast. It is totally unrelated to this conversation.
Yes and no. The International was a specific GN train that ran from Seattle Washington to Vancouver BC. It started in 1950 as the International Limited. It lasted under BN until Amtrak in 1971.
Oh that is tough, I can only guess. I have the Consist for 1951. Which was a five car train:
baggage/mail
3 coach
coach/dinner
parlor/lounge observation
Then I have a note that says the diner left the train in 1960, and I have a photo of 1968 with a dome coach in it. I think that the mail was still on the trains in 1966. soooo
So I will guess a 1966 train would be:
baggage/mail
coach
dome coach
coach
coach
parlor/lounge observation
FYI for motive power in 1966 I am guessing the E7s are gone and relaced with an F7AB set. I think I could figure out a much closer date when the Es were removed but don't have the inclination to research it out at the moment.
It would seem the 1949 Internationals were the first streamliners. I seem to have very little information about earlier trains, but I found this for you: http://www.gnflyer.com/CoastLine.html
It even has the same photo I was talking about above of the 1968 International. It says the observation is a Mountain series rather than the normal 1195.
