EMD F3 Taking the Plunge

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NWCanuck

NWCanuck

Tip&Ring
Well I have decided to have at it. I recently bought a Walthers Proto 2000 EMD F3 A & B set in NYC. The model looks great, but I really wanted and F3 unit in Norfolk and Western. They never had F3's on the Norfolk, only Ex Wabash F7's painted Blue with gold lettering (or so I thought).

The effect I am going for is something like this prototypical F7 unit which is an exact match to the real thing. Not sure who makes this model or if it was custom?

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Here is the Prototype:

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This is what I am going for. I prefer the all Black scheme over the blue. I was going to make mine black regardless, but I actually found and example of and Ex Wabash F7 in a black scheme (even though mine will be an F3):

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This will be the the donor, a new Proto 2000 NYC F3 with B unit, Dcc and sound:

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Notice my missing step on the back door mentioned in my other post, damn you Walthers!
 
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Body Removal

Here is a picture of the B unit. I also followed the same steps for the A unit. I will post this as info only because this is my first attempt at something like this and I am by no means skilled in this art like some members here. I am definitely open to tips here from the more experienced folks.

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I started by taking the couplers off and then moved onto the shell. The easiest way I have found to disengage all four body clips is with tooth picks which hold all four points of contact open as you pull the shell off. Handy unless you have four arms in which case disregard.

Next I pushed the end windows in on both ends of the B unit with a tooth pick (a Q-Tip was too big), they easily popped out with very little force. The windows on the A and B unit are a different story. They are one piece units which also double as the clips to hold the shell on.

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I used a small precision flat head screw driver and carefully walked it under the plastic and very gently pried the plastic up. If I was met with any major resistance I came at it form the other side. They are mostly spot welded on with plastic cement so you should be able to find a spot.

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Be gentle here. The B unit widows came out in one piece. The A unit only has two portals and the piece was broken in the middle on both sides. This must have occurred at the factory because it was not caused by me. Not a big deal though. The circle that fills the hole in the shell and the clips for the body are all that really matters.

The rest of the window glazing’s on the A unit were pushed in or pried out with the screw driver method or by pushing into the shell cavity with a Q-Tip (so you don’t scratch the glazing). Be very careful with all the windows on the A unit because as posted Walthers does not offer replacement parts separately from the undecorated shells.

A little note here: The headlight gets push into the shell with your choice of weapon. The class lights get pushed out of the shell and man are they small, so go easy. THEY ARE CLEAR AND THE SIZE OF A PINHEAD, drop one and good luck with the monocle! I did have a small problem with one number board that refused to let go but did eventually come out with the soaking and stripping process to follow.

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This is a nice narrative. Keep it up. I'm sure some of your findings will work on other Walthers diesels and lifeLike too.

Chas.
 


Charles Smiley said:
This is a nice narrative. Keep it up. I'm sure some of your findings will work on other Walthers diesels and lifeLike too.

Chas.
Click to expand...

Thanks Chas, I hope some people find this info useful. I know that I am learning a great deal from the process and from the others on this forum.
 
Stripping The Shell

I decided that I was NOT going to strip the entire shell. I know that some people on here would disagree with that decision but the reason made sense to me and I will explain. I am painting the finished locomotive in Polly Scale Engine Black as the base. Since the NYC scheme is 80% black I figured I could get away with only stripping off the raised lettering including road number and name, NYC logo, EMD builders plates, and front and back orientation markings. The plan was to strip the paint down to the bare shell but only in the panels that contained the raised lettering and paint. Each panel section is separated by a row of rivets which hides the different layers of paint between panels. You would need a micrometer to pickup this difference in paint thickness on the finished shell, that is for sure. If I was dealing with any other colours but black, I would strip the entire shell.

(Note: Click on any of these photos again after they open to make them the full 1024 x 768 for easier viewing)

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I followed the same process for the B unit, which is easier than the A unit because you don't have to deal with the nose details.

The Dip

After reading many posts on here about stripping paint and shells, and all the different products out there I decided to go with 90% Isopropyl Alcohol (70% won't touch it and the higher than 90% the better). I went to Shoppers Drug Mart and all they carry is 70% and 99% so the only choice here is the 99%. For soaking I used a Ziplock brand disposable container. The bottle in the photo says Isopropanol but according to the pharmacist it is the same thing as Isopropyl and it is a naming issue with chemists.

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Next I submersed the shells in the 99% Isopropyl, but only up to the first horizontal white line which rides on the rivet details. I only want to strip from this line down and only in certain panels.

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I let the shell soak for only 15 minutes the first round to test the effects on the paint. Nothing was happening so I let it soak for an hour. After an hour is when I started working at the paint with Alcohol soaked Q-Tips. Had the paint fallen right off I would have stripped the entire shell all the way around. This was not the case which also helped decide to go panel to panel with the Q-Tips. Only rub the areas you want the paint to come off because it will come off if you continue to work at it.

More to follow, not sure why I can only post four pictures at a time...
 
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I'd like to know how to just erase the unit numbers on this brand. And is it the same for the LifeLike (earlier) versions in P2K?

Did you notice if they came off first without messing up the base-colors?
 
LATX said:
Question with this method work on a life like F40?
Click to expand...

I can not tell you guys what the result will be on the earlier Life Like brand because the paint has probably changed since that time. Saying as this factory painting takes place in China, who knows what they used at that time. That is why I recommend submerging the shell for only 10-15 minutes at first the see how the paint reacts to the Alcohol. Then take it out and dip your Q-tip in the same Alcohol and rub the paint. If it comes of easily then the paint will react quickly to this process requiring little time to strip the layers. If it does not budge, you will need more time like I experienced with this newer Proto 2000 shell and scheme.

When I get home tonight and have access to my computer with the rest of my photos I will show you what happened with my shell (no suspense here people, everything went well). I can tell you that with the Alcohol process the paint comes off in layers and only if you rub the area you want it too (at least with this newer shell and paint). Stay tuned and I will show you the rest of what I have to date. ;)
 
Charles Smiley said:
I'd like to know how to just erase the unit numbers on this brand. And is it the same for the LifeLike (earlier) versions in P2K?

Did you notice if they came off first without messing up the base-colors?
Click to expand...

I will post tonight as soon as I can and show you or at least explain how I feather the existing base coat into the new colour after I rub the lettering off. I can tell you that if you rub a number off a base coat you will need to airbrush or touch up that base coat because the rubbing action does harm the next layer to some degree. The base coats are usually sprayed on and the lettering and numbers are usually ink pressed on the shell. That makes the raised numbering and lettering the hardest part to get off, and this is the area you will have to rub the most.

I wish I had taken a photo of this step because the first thing to come of when rubbing a number or letter out is the base coat around it (usually right down to the shell) because this is the thinest layer of paint. Next to come off is the white lettering (in my case) leaving the same letter underneath only in black now. The black letter is the hardest and last part to get off now because it was the black base coat that was pressed into the shell by the white lettering. By the time you get this off and end up with a level surface with the shell there is no paint left to worry about.

So as you can see this might not be the process for your application because I was going for a paint free panel as where you just want to remove the letter or number. Unfortunately for you the letters and numbers are the hardest to get off an require the most scrubbing.
 
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Soaking Continued...

One thing I should mention is to be careful and watch for any small detail parts that fall off during the soaking process as the alcohol will loosen some of the glues used for these parts. The only thing that came off of my units were two grab irons around a door and a step. Everything else was nailed on.

Here are some photos of the B Unit with the paint removed entirely in the panels that contained lettering. I was able to get the "F1" and "2" that designate ends of the unit off without doing much to the black paint underneath. Like I mentioned in the previous post the road name was the hardest to get off. You pretty much have to take it right down to the shell to get a level surface within the panel.

View attachment 19571

The missing grey paint in the above panel was not intentional but had to be done due to handling which caused the paint to begin to bubble, so it had to come off because it was two layers thick (grey over black). This occurred on both sides.

***Oh did I mention that I am wearing nitrile gloves this whole time which is a good idea with 100% alcohol which can be absorbed through the skin***

Also notice the missing black paint on the top of the unit which was also caused by handling even though I only ever soaked the bottom half and made sure not to touch the liquid, it still found its way onto the roof. Not to worry though, where ever it lightly bubbled and you can see it if you hold the unit at an angle to light, all I did was rub it down to expose the shell because the black coat is very thin and then feathered it out like an auto body repair into the surrounding black paint. So the damaged spot was only a centimeter wide but I ended up making it twice as wide to blend it. This technique allows you to blend the new paint into the old paint without any issues.

Here is a shot of the top side with the paint damage and the blending I did into the surrounding black.

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And here is a shot of the right hand side for the record.

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If you notice in the photos on the ladders there is some white residue which is from the 99% alcohol. It also appears in others spots on the model and is easily removed by using 70% alcohol with a Q-Tip and rubbing which won't remove any paint. After that I rinsed the A and B units in water and blew out the etched details and other nooks and grannies with my air brush at 30 PSI. Before I continued any further I made sure to re-attach any detail parts and glue them on with CA from the inside of the shell. Now that the shell is dry it was time for paint.

The etched radiator grills were also lifting off in two spots. There are six vertical rivet lines that are part of the shell and the etched grills are held on by bent over tabs on the inside of the shell. I used a pin and some CA on a piece of paper, then I dabbed the pin in the CA and made sure I had very little on the pin, you can always go back for more. Next I pushed the grill down and dragged the pin up the vertical rivet line, which allows the CA to run into the grove. Hold if for 10 seconds and you are set. If you try to apply CA directly to the grills it will flow into the details and you will end up with a flat panel instead of a nice grill.
 
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Painting

For the paint I have chosen Polly Scale Engine Black. I prefer the acrylic over enamel based on odor alone because I shoot it in my basement in a booth and have two small children and a wife that is sensitive to odors (boy did she marry the wrong guy):eek:.

I thinned it with 70% Isopropyl alcohol in a 60 (paint) to 40 (alcohol) percent mix. I sprayed it at 20-30 PSI in thin layers allowing a few minutes between coats. The benefit of this acrylic paint and alcohol mix is the quick drying time due to alcohol evaporation. The down side is that you may experience drying out on the tip of the airbrush. The solution is some Windex on a paper towel dabbed on the tip of the brush clears it out in a snap (Mind the pointy end on the brush) and you are back in business.

I first started by spraying two light, thin and separate coats on the bare shell panels that I made during the stripping process. This helps bring the paint thickness up to the same level as surrounding panels, although it doesn't really seem to matter, we are talking microns here.

After those coats dried (5 minutes) I sprayed the whole shell, sides first in an up and down motion moving left to right. Next was the ends and finally the top, making sure not to spray down into the radiator fans because the blade details inside are silver and there is no access to them because they are melted to the shell from the inside with some kind of iron.

I have just started painting the MU hoses, knuckles and door kick plates with Polly Scale ATSF Silver. I am using a very small 10/0 brush for the fine detail. I recommend being sober and caffeine free for this step (this hobby is killing me:rolleyes:). I am kind of stuck at this point because I am waiting for a detail step to arrive next Friday to replace one I have lost? No thanks to Walthers, but that is another post.

And that is pretty much where I am to date, the next step will be Testors Gloss Cote and decals which are arriving with my step, so without further delay here are the shells with the first few coats of base colour and some minor detail painting....
 
As an experiment, I repainted a pair of my P2K engines without stripping the previously applied factory paint. I had two UP F7's to be rebadged for Wabash. I just used Krylon oxide-colored primer over the old paint, then masked the engines, and applied the new scheme. I was pleasantly surprised when the project came to fruition. No "shadows" or "bleed" what-so-ever. And the details were not diminished one bit.

Needless to say, I am considering another painting project and not stripping the shell. If this trial works as well as the first, I may throw away my alcohol.......

Bob
 
Results

Here is the A Unit:

View attachment 19574

Nose:

View attachment 19575

Up close A unit with no loss of rivet detail:

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Sorry for the lighting. The florescent lights cast a shadow so I used a flash light at a distance to clear this effect. The paint may appear lighter in the middle of the photos but that is because of the center of the flash light beam. I never said I was a photographer.:p

The gondola underneath is an old yellow and red Tyco Union Pacific train set car that I practiced my airbrushing, decal setting and weathering on. This helps allot before moving onto something like this F3 Project. I have yet to try Gloss and Dull Coating something, so I think I will use the gondola first, even though I applied the CN decals directly onto the Polly Scale Engine Black without any problems. The recommended practice seems to be Paint, Gloss Coat, Decals, maybe another Gloss Coat and then Dull Coat?
 
Decals

Well I finally got my step in from Walthers and my decals from Micro Scale.

Decaling may be the hardest part or at least that is what I found it to be. To get it right it takes time and patience to follow all the steps. I think it might be easier to quote Carey from another post here on the forums.

Cjcrescent said:
This is the method that I have used in all my years as a custom painter. I have never had a problem with "silvering", or visible decal edges either.
1. Paint model in what ever desired color(s).
2. Gloss the surface with a hi gloss clear coat. I do this even if painting with a glossy paint like Scalecoat.
3. Cut out and soak decal in warm water. If it is a large decal, when cutting it out, cut the decal out with a "wavy" edge. Don't just cut in a straight line across the decal. The "wavy" edge helps hide the decal film. The reason is that a straight edge is easier to see than a curved edge. Using tweezers to handle decal, place decal as close to final position as possible. I use q-tips dipping in water to place the decal in final position. After the decal is in final position, slightly press the decal into place with a dry q-tip. Apply Solva-set with a small brush, starting at the edges and finishing in the middle of the decal. Do not touch decal agin until dry! After the decal has dried, use a wet q-tip again to remove residue from the dried Solva-set around the decal. Most decal setting solutions leave a slighty visible residue that can become very visible when sealed. After the model has been completely decaled, and is totally dry, rinse in water to remove final Solve-set residues.
4. Spray the model with another coat of the hi gloss clear coat. Since the surface of the decals is glossy, placing another coat of gloss over it helps to not only hide the edges of the decal, but also "matches" the gloss of the decals to their surrounding surfaces.
5. Now spray with your favorite dulling spray.
Click to expand...

I did make a mistake when using Walthers Solvaset. It leaves behind a white residue that I found hard to get off with just plain water. Using a damp paper towel to wick away the excess around the decal may have helped to reduce this effect. I made the error of using 70% Isopropyl alcohol around the decal which made the Gloss Cote haze badly.

This caused me to skip the Gloss coat after applying the decal and I had to tape off the decals and spray Polly Scale Engine Black again to blend the error. Using painters tape I ended up loosing a bit of the "D'" in the word "AND" and a "T" in the word "Western". I really should have let the decals fully cure for 24hrs. This would have prevented the lifting. Luckily I was able to scrap and apply two new letters over the old ones. So I cant stress enough to take your time and follow the quoted steps to the letter.

This link to another discussion may also add some value as far as using decal setting solutions.


http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17776
 
Weathering


For weathering I used Polly Scale Dirt in a 60/40 mix of paint to 70% isopropyl alcohol. I set the airbrush to a low paint setting and 20-25 PSI and worked in thin layers on the lower 1/4 of the shell where dirt and road grime would collect. The door kick plates were painted with a 10/0 brush using Polly Scale ATSF Silver and the railings were painted with Polly Scale Reefer Yellow which is a good match for N&W railing yellow. The fuel tank cap was painted with Testors Red Enamel. After all the detail painting was done I over sprayed the model with a very thin coat of Engine Black in the same 60/40 mix. This is all the weathering I have done for now until I get a coat of Testors Dull Coat on it to see what it looks like. I still need to decal the number boards and install them before I hit the model with the Dull Coat so that they blend into the finish and don’t stick out.

The shells in the photo are just sitting on the chassis for now which were also sprayed with Polly Scale Dirt. I used a piece of plain paper jammed between the wheels and the side frames to protect the wheels from over spray.

Sorry for the lighting in the photos my basement is horrible for photography. I will post more pictures after I get the number boards on and when I can take it outside for proper lighting. Right now it is hard to tell the black from the dirt weathering because of the yellow lighting and the current state of Gloss Coat.


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For beginners wanting to weather trains, I would suggest using chalks. If you don't like what you've done, just wipe it off with a damp rag and start over. When you achieve the desired effect, just spray with dull coat.

Brad, I weather my shells before applying details. The details are painted on the sprue, if they come on one, and weathered before applying them to the body. I've found it to be easier than trying to paint them after they have been attached. These old hands aren't as steady a they once were.

I cannot tell you how many old cars I practiced with before tackling a "real" shell. At least 20. I now have 4 airbrushes, all with different set ups for different jobs. I hate taking them apart, changing needles and tips for a 2 minute job, then changing back to the original set up for a different application.

I know everyone can't afford the "luxury" of owning more than one airbrush, but it has been a real blessing and time saver for me. And the use of chalks allows you to make a "mistake" without ruining the project. I've even used REAL dirt, powdered rust, and limestone and coal/graphite dust to weather cars. Amazing some of the results. I've not had real good success using washes, however.

Bob
 
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