Directional lighting...?


nateL

Engineer
Hmm so im messing around with an older P&W Dash 8 ive got and i took the engine components out of it (n scale, the engine was acting up on me) to make it into a dummy loco to act as a trailing loco for some consists and what not...so to get to my point, Ive managed to keep the directional lighting working (as pretty much all atlas locos come with)...but id like to make it so both sets of headlights work instead of just the rear ones...does anybody know how to do that? If its even possible?

Thanks ahead of time,

Nate :)
 
I don't quite understand your question. You want both sets of lights to work in the dummy at all times? If so, why, since an engine in consist wouldn't have any headlights lit. If you're asking about being able to control the direction of the lighting if the dummy is in the lead, that's a problem. I assume you left the light board in so the lights are getting voltage. The problem is that, with no motor, the lights aren't going to know what's front and back. Maybe you can explain your problem a little better.
 
If you just want to control the lights by locomotive direction, use some diodes. You can get them very cheap at Radio Shack or from jameco. A diode only allows the current in a circuit to flow one direction. When a locomotive changes direction, the change is a result of a change in the direction of the current in the rails. You will need to look up which way to put the diodes in.

Note: If you use DCC, then this method will not work. For DCC, an accessory decoder or engine decoder (either can be made to work) will be necessary.
 
I don't quite understand your question. You want both sets of lights to work in the dummy at all times? If so, why, since an engine in consist wouldn't have any headlights lit. If you're asking about being able to control the direction of the lighting if the dummy is in the lead, that's a problem. I assume you left the light board in so the lights are getting voltage. The problem is that, with no motor, the lights aren't going to know what's front and back. Maybe you can explain your problem a little better.


Sorry about the wording haha, uhh...well what i mean is i made one of my engines a dummy. The engine will never be a lead but always instead acting as the tail end of a consist or a 2nd or 3rd loco behind one or two that do actually run. The reason i took the engine out is becuase it started to stall and just drag behind, so i took it out. But yes, i left the light board in and it actually DOES know which way is forwards and backwords...i.e i can still run the power forwards and get the front head light to work, then switch the power to backwords and the rear one comes on. So everything still works the way it should basically, just theres no engine or gears...it rolls freely...Now to the main point..Im wondering if theres a way to get rid of directional lighting and make it so both headlights can be on no matter what direction its going...because if you look at a prototype for instance, the trailing loco will sometimes have just its headlights on on both ends
 
As a good example, that picture is exactly what im trying to do..and in this picture, you can see the tail lights are still on. This is the same exact train as the first picture..so this proves both sets of lights are on...THATS what im trying to do haha :p
 
Nate, so the lighting board is still detecting polarity changes and the headlight in the forward direction is lit but not the other headelight, is this correct? If so, this is what you want. It is not typical that a head end engine will run with front and rear headlights on. Maybe this is a P&W thing bit most railroads dont want to burn out headlight bulbs lighting up nothing but the front most car of a train. I suspect the engineer just forgot to turn off the rear headlight. The only time I've seen rear headlights in common use is during bad weather at night when the Rule 17 dim headlights would be left on so it was easier to see if the brakeman or conductor had to move between engines. The only time this would change would be if an engine is acting as a rear end pusher. The bright headlight is usually on then. Even this would only be a problem if the cab was facing the rear, since the rear headlight would be on but not the cab headlight.

This would be easy if you had DCC. Since you don't, and if you really want both head lights on, you'd have to take the lighting board out and wire the headlights to the trucks. You'd put a magnetic reed switch in-line with the two sets of wires. You could then turn on and off one or both headlights using a magnet from the outside of the shell. You can get all these parts at Radio Shack and, since you have an empty shell, you should have enough room to make it work.

I guess my question is how important is this to you? You'd be going through a lot of work and money so you could do something that's not common on the vast majority of railroads.
 
The trailing units should never have their headlights (or number boards) on unless the engineer didn't set the selector switch to "trailing unit". If you are running a lite engine consist, then the very rear lights would be used as a "marker". Or if you are taking the power out to your train at night, the engineer will turn on the rear lights for you to see while making the joint, then back off.

If you are running that unit as a middle unit in the consist, it doesn't require any lights.

If it's the rear unit in a consist, only the lights on the very end (which ever way the unit is facing) would be used if making a reverse movement lite engine.

Hope that makes sense cuz now I'm confused lol
 
As a good example, that picture is exactly what im trying to do..and in this picture, you can see the tail lights are still on. This is the same exact train as the first picture..so this proves both sets of lights are on...THATS what im trying to do haha :p

That's an engineer's brain fart. Those lights are supposed to be off ;) I'm pretty sure that's an FRA rule as well as individual RR's, but since I'm a conductor, and chose not to be an engineer, I'm not 100% on the FRA rule. :)
 
Nate, so the lighting board is still detecting polarity changes and the headlight in the forward direction is lit but not the other headelight, is this correct? If so, this is what you want. It is not typical that a head end engine will run with front and rear headlights on. Maybe this is a P&W thing bit most railroads dont want to burn out headlight bulbs lighting up nothing but the front most car of a train. I suspect the engineer just forgot to turn off the rear headlight. The only time I've seen rear headlights in common use is during bad weather at night when the Rule 17 dim headlights would be left on so it was easier to see if the brakeman or conductor had to move between engines. The only time this would change would be if an engine is acting as a rear end pusher. The bright headlight is usually on then. Even this would only be a problem if the cab was facing the rear, since the rear headlight would be on but not the cab headlight.

This would be easy if you had DCC. Since you don't, and if you really want both head lights on, you'd have to take the lighting board out and wire the headlights to the trucks. You'd put a magnetic reed switch in-line with the two sets of wires. You could then turn on and off one or both headlights using a magnet from the outside of the shell. You can get all these parts at Radio Shack and, since you have an empty shell, you should have enough room to make it work.

I guess my question is how important is this to you? You'd be going through a lot of work and money so you could do something that's not common on the vast majority of railroads.



Those pictures are pictures of the trailing end..what i really mean is i want mind to look like that. Say for instance i have the SAME EXACT set up as the one shown in the picture, with the engine facing the way it is and trailing the way it is, my model would have the rear headlights on becuase of its direction. Im just wondering if theres an easy way to make the lights on the front go on instead of the rear ones, even tho its moving backwords..know what im saying? hahah.

Honestly, its not really that important to me, becuase everything youve explained does indeed sound expensive, thank youfor all that tho..ill ahve to right it down just incase i want to do something to that extent in the future or actually do, do this to my loco. Oof..id never be able to think of that on my own hah, sorry for being such a pain!

thanks for everything!
 
The trailing units should never have their headlights (or number boards) on unless the engineer didn't set the selector switch to "trailing unit". If you are running a lite engine consist, then the very rear lights would be used as a "marker". Or if you are taking the power out to your train at night, the engineer will turn on the rear lights for you to see while making the joint, then back off.

If you are running that unit as a middle unit in the consist, it doesn't require any lights.

If it's the rear unit in a consist, only the lights on the very end (which ever way the unit is facing) would be used if making a reverse movement lite engine.

Hope that makes sense cuz now I'm confused lol


haha yes that makes sence...now i know something i didnt! guess i really dont need that light on then huh...oh well...and plus, ive seen this MANY many times, with a trailing unit having the lights on..well just P&W haha...guess our engineers have "brain farts" quite often :p
 
haha yes that makes sence...now i know something i didnt! guess i really dont need that light on then huh...oh well...and plus, ive seen this MANY many times, with a trailing unit having the lights on..well just P&W haha...guess our engineers have "brain farts" quite often :p

It is required to display a marker on a train so Light Engine moves, Helpers, DPU Power, Etc will use a dim headlight for a marker. Unless its a CR loco that has red markers on it.

Here is the rule right out of the NORAC book that PW uses.

24. Markers
On a main track or controlled siding outside of yard limits, the rear of a train must be identified by a marker as prescribed below:
a. Passenger Trains, Engines
Passenger trains, lite engines and engines operating at the rear of a train must:
1. Be equipped with an illuminated marking device.
OR
2. Have the rear headlight on low beam at all times.
 
Nate, it's only the engines described by Mark that need headlights on. An engine, whether it's one the front or rear of a train, doesn't need the headlight on the opposite engine on. In your second picture, the engineer didn't need to have both the front and rear headlight on, hence the "brain fart comment".

There is no way to do what you want with a dummy and not engine control board except as I described. If you want to make it easy, put the dummy on the front and powered pusher on the rear. Assuming you're running DCC, change the forward direction of the pusher so the bright headlight will show to the rear. The dummy in front should already have the right headlight since it's running forward.
 
It is required to display a marker on a train so Light Engine moves, Helpers, DPU Power, Etc will use a dim headlight for a marker. Unless its a CR loco that has red markers on it.

Here is the rule right out of the NORAC book that PW uses.

24. Markers
On a main track or controlled siding outside of yard limits, the rear of a train must be identified by a marker as prescribed below:
a. Passenger Trains, Engines
Passenger trains, lite engines and engines operating at the rear of a train must:
1. Be equipped with an illuminated marking device.
OR
2. Have the rear headlight on low beam at all times.

ahhhh i see. hmm you learn something new everyday =]
 
Nate, it's only the engines described by Mark that need headlights on. An engine, whether it's one the front or rear of a train, doesn't need the headlight on the opposite engine on. In your second picture, the engineer didn't need to have both the front and rear headlight on, hence the "brain fart comment".

There is no way to do what you want with a dummy and not engine control board except as I described. If you want to make it easy, put the dummy on the front and powered pusher on the rear. Assuming you're running DCC, change the forward direction of the pusher so the bright headlight will show to the rear. The dummy in front should already have the right headlight since it's running forward.

yea i guess youre right, Jim. haha well ill just leave it how it is then...or maybe take the board out..ill deffinitely keep all that information in mind tho!

thanks alot guys :)

-Nate
 



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