Different eras?


Milwaukee Road 113

Milwaukee Road 113

Milwaukee Road addict...
Wasn't too sure where put thus, but since I work in HO scale, I put it here....

Being that I love my steam locomotives, I do also like the transition era steam/diesel and up to '76!
Me (and best pal in Sweden) was thinking, which way, how do you in the best way build a layout, so that you don't have change too much between eras, if one weekend is steam and the following is early to mid sixties? I can imagine that buildings didn't change much, but what about signals etc., etc.?
There isn't anything that I don't enjoy in this, love scenery, realistic operations is a must, I think that all aspects in modelling, whether it's HO or aircraft etc., as I my case, research is just as much fun as the rest!

As always, appreciate any and every input!
 
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I think you mean "There isn't anything that I don't enjoy in this"...

I am having a similar question, in that my engines span from the 1950s to now. I have said previously that I don't really pay attention to eras (particularly with engines and cars) but the closer I get to putting up track the more I start thinking about things like town eras and how that would impact which types of signals I put down (modern railroad crossings, old swinging ones, etc). I can't really help with your question of operations, as I actually don't enjoy that part. I just like to drive the trains around and pick up freight, but, I will admit the question of how to make the scenery cohesive when engines and cars span 60+ years is a good one. In your case the timeframe is even longer.

I visited a model RR club near me (they are far too focused on operations, so I only went once and ran away) and they had a very similar situation. They claimed 1/2 the club drove steam and 1/2 drove diesel. The cure? 1/2 the layout was steam and 1/2 the layout was diesel. I did notice slight differences, but mostly it was industry. The steam side had logging/coal/etc. The diesel was more modern. They had little signal systems throughout. Most turnouts were manual. Maybe that could give you some ideas?


Milwaukee Road 113 said:
Wasn't too sure where put thus, but since I work in HO scale, I put it here....
Being that I love my steam locomotives, I do also like the transition era steam/diesel and up to '76!
Me (and best pal in Sweden) was thinking, which way, how do you in the best way build a layout, so that you don't have change too much between eras, if one weekend is steam and the following is early to mid sixties? I can imagine that buildings didn't change much, but what about signals etc., etc.?
There isn't anything that I enjoy in this, love scenery, realistic operations is a must, I think that all aspects in modelling, whether it's HO or aircraft etc., as I my case, research is just as much fun as the rest!
Click to expand...
 
It seems to me that it's your layout, and the question is whom you're trying to impress. Conventional wisdom says you should do something more or less like say "I model 1945-1960", or maybe even "I picked August 21, 1938, because I have a dispatcher's train sheet for East Podunk, my locale, for that date." If you want to hobnob with Tony Koester, that's great FOR YOU (and even better for him). I was never able to fit that, and for a while I felt guilty about it, until I got into some theology and realized I needed to feel guilty about the important stuff, not the era on my layout.

I started railfanning seriously in the early 1960s, in my mid teens, and I like pretty much anything I saw and still see since then. So I have no problem running Jersey Central and BNSF, or even earlier stuff (I have an Erie Triplex I'm very fond of). Guys used to come around on layout tours and complain about it. I fixed that, why want to impress those guys? It's my life and my layout. I quit doing layout tours.
 
There are things you can do, if you really must, to improve the fidelity of your layout between the eras. You can have two sets of structures. Simply pluck one off the layout and place the 'other' kind on that base in its place when you want to switch time-frames. Cars and trucks are easily swapped out from the scenery. Signals will be trickier.

Personally, I don't care. I run what I want to on my layouts because the entire experience, no matter how realistic you make your layout, involves a certain suspension of disbelief. Your viewing angle is what starts it. If you tower above your layout and tracks, you must pretend you're atop a pretty good, steep, and nearby hill. The closer you get your head to the action, the less realistic is must seem...again, unless you are willing to put in all the missing details, or resize the obviously grossly over-sized ones you can see. For me, an SD75-M running along my otherwise 1952 double main with its signals from about that era is just the way it has to be. If I stage a photo I intend to publish, I can take some pains to increase the realism.

Each of us assigns a priority to our time and emotional experience. For some, if it isn't serious operations that work exactly as the prototype they model did/does, it just isn't very interesting or fun. For me, operations is well down the list, as is the construction of a layout. I don't like operating my trains on plywood, so I have to go through all it takes to create realistic scenery. THEN...I get to have my fun, which is watching trains move through my layout.

In the end, it's all pretend, just like when we laid on mom 'n pop's living room floor while they watched the old Philco after the supper dishes were done.
 
Milwaukee Road 113 said:
Being that I love my steam locomotives, I do also like the transition era steam/diesel and up to '76!
Me (and best pal in Sweden) was thinking, which way, how do you in the best way build a layout, so that you don't have change too much between eras, if one weekend is steam and the following is early to mid sixties? I can imagine that buildings didn't change much, but what about signals etc., etc.?
Click to expand...
Deja Vu, Didn't we just have a very similar discussion. hmm, ....

No buildings don't change too much other than state of repair. A house built by the tracks in the 1920's could very easily still be there today. Businesses are more prone to tear down and rebuild. The brick and stone of the early 1900s being replaced by the cement, steel, and glass of the 1950s forward. Industry types were changing dramatically. Track side coal dealers, stock yards, and ice dealers were going away. But those sorts of things didn't get torn down quickly - just abandon. The automobiles, trucks, billboards, signs, and people's dress are the things that really changed. Another thing that would have changed is the existence of technology related things like radio communications replacing the telegraph, broadcast towers, TV antennas.

At the museum which is set in 1974, we had to go through the photo mural back drop and do treatments for all the satellite dishes, cell antennas, and similar on a current photo. sigh.
 
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Milwaukee Road 113:

I have a similar situation with the locos and rolling stock on my layout which span several eras from the late steam to the 1990's. Other than two steamers, all locos are diesels. I am careful that most of the structures on the layout fit these years and avoid any structures or details that maybe current or modern.

When I can I try to run cars of a similar era with locos that would be pulling the same era rolling stock. Most people never will never notice the mix of rolling stock and locos.

Rolling stock in the small yards can be found as era mixed and still maintain some degree of realism.

Again, its your layout and do what ever you want to do.

Greg
 
I run all diesels but with in that type I span some 30+ yrs with my locos and switchers. Afew months back going over a over pass that has a switching yard near it I noticed a Cn rail switcher (very old looking beast) I copied the # down and looked it up on the net when i got home, What did i find? The switcher was made in late 50s or early 60s (i cant remember off hand) and it was hooking up a 70MAC CN loco so to me a steamer from say late 40s-early 50s would not be out of place w/diesels from 70s at all no matter how your layout looks.
 
There really isn't any problem running active steam up through the mid-1950's, with some diesels overlapping (mainly F's, E's and Alco F and P's, plus road switchers. Even today, a steamer isn't a problem. You just have to run it as a fan trip! OTOH, the larger road units are certainly of the modern era. Depending on the tightest curves you have, some of the big SD's may not handle tight curves well. Buildings can span a lot of time. Unless a neighborhood on your layout is undergoing "urban renewal", some of those old brick structures should do just fine! Some industries wouldn't have been appropriate years ago, of course. Ethanol production would have been more limited in the 1960's and earlier, though the stuff was being produced somewhere. Same with steel mills. The big mills that were to be seen around Gary, IN, and Pittsburg, PA, are no longer around. Coal and lumber are still going on, though it may be a matter of regional concentrations, such as modern-day Wyoming. (We see 105 car unit trains running from Wyoming to Pueblo, CO, every day. Passenger trains, of course, are all Amtrak today. Gone are the flagships of the Burlington, NP, GN, NYC, etc. But it is easy enough to swap eras as you choose. You are absolutely right! It is all pretend. That is why I can look at the man with the little boy up on his shoulders, waiting for President Harry Truman's Whistle-stop Special to clear Galesburg, Illinois, (even though Dad was a staunch Republican, he wanted me to see "The President"!). And there comes the Special, while the Zephyr is sidetracked in the station. OTOH, when my grandchild and some other kids come over, I can pull out a BNSF "motor" with a coal train and no caboose (a train without a caboose is agin the laws of Nature!!!), as that is what they see. (No, I haven't gone so far as to buy Amtrak passenger cars, yet. Just can't get there. ;)
 
On subject of caboose is it just me or is it hard to find good quailty cabooses? ive got afew and the couple a have (walthers,Athearn) are very nice, but it appears most companys pay little attention to putting out different good quailty cabooses........not to change the thread context.
 
There used to be a lot more caboose models in HO scale. I suspect with the demise of the caboose (waycar, cabin car) as a standard unit in a freight train (there are a few around as transfer offices), the model manufacturers have figured it isn't worth bothering about, as they don't figure to sell that many. Sad... :(
 
I decided to limit the era so I can keep the budget and equipment under control, so, from the mid-1960s to midnight, March 31, 1976. (The anthracite roads and some PRR/NYC/PC for good measure to keep things interesting.) I do have a couple of Conrail locos in case I ever get the urge to nudge the era up a little bit.

JWB: I do have the local model group after me to show my layout during their upcoming regional NMRA convention, but that is not going to happen. I'm not going to have others making comments about my layout, especially since it won't be done, isn't DCC, not sound equipped, and wouldn't appreciate the "little puns" that have been worked in to the layout by my son, daughter and myself. So, I understand your point about layout tours.
 
I hear you photoman 1/2 or at least 1/3 is for my 10 yr old daughter...nope sh*t she does is not always in HO scale , last thing i want is some jack wagon telling me my hand rails R too thick ...or my daughters sign is G scale not HO...this is ment 2b fun....and 4 something 4 my girl and I 2 spend time on togather
 
You could divide the layout into two (or more) scenic parts. One part could be fully detailed for each era you want to model. Just operate the section that matches the rolling stock you feel like using, and use the 'wrong era' part of the layout for staging or continuous running. A double sided view block would let you do this on a tabletop sized layout.
 
While having some similar thoughts and considerations in time frames that my layout can/will cover i had the following thought: What would make a difference albeit a detail item is the automobiles present in the layout, while the same building could be next to the track from 1950 to 1970 (dates taken as an example), a 1965 car would be impossible in the 1955 setting. Going the other way around, in 1970 you would not see the majority of cars being models dating back to 1950, based on the good economic conditions of the era i presume that people updated their cars rather quickly (correct me if i am wrong).
 
I visited a large club layout a few years back and they could have trains running for just about any time period. They would change eras for their open houses very easily.

First off, for the most part, you will usually find older buildings close to the railroad as when railroads moved into town, business wanted to be close. As time passed, some of the older buildings may have been raised for new industries to have access to the railroad. This club had their poop in a group. They has a few buildings that could be taken out of the layout, say for instance,and older building which would be for the transition era, and have a newer modern building that exactly fit the same spot as the older one and all they had to do after changing out the older buildings was to change out some vehicles and some machinery and POOF, the era was changed.

I was suprised that even the visitors to the open house noticed the change. Well thought out and executed.
 
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