Decal application help


V

Vince-RA

Well-Known Member
Just finished building and painting an old time tank car - https://www.labellemodels.com/texas-midland-tank-p-61.html

I'm having a devil of a time with the decals, though. I'm certainly no expert but have applied decals to probably a dozen cars in the past. Never had any real trouble with these, even with sloppy technique - mostly floating the decal+paper on water, pulling it off the paper with tweezers, then carrying it over to the application site in the tweezers. I used Microscale Micro Gloss to prep the surface, and Microscale Micro Sol to float/set the decals on the model.

I tried this strategy with the decals for this car and they pretty much immediately curled up on themselves when I removed them from the paper. Re-floating them in water allowed them to spread out again for the most part, but never could get them to stay unfurled. After that I tried to be less sloppy and slide them off the paper directly onto the Micro Sol on the model. This was modestly successful, but when I blotted the decal dry they again curled up on me. Unfortunately the corner of the decal curled underneath the rest of it, and I was not able to recover it.

Any advice here? Are these just super thin/fragile decals and I need to suck less at applying?
 
May be very old decals? I usually put decals in small clear cup of cool water for at least 60 seconds and slide them on to wetted surface. I only have one micro solution I put that sparingly on top. If I have excess moisture usually very careful about touching excess drop with edge of paper towel which wicks some of the moisture away, instructions on products I have used recommends against blotting out too much but letting evaporation settle the decal into crevices.

On my latest model, instructions suggested spraying decals with dull coat and letting dullcoat dry thoroughly prior to application procedure (soaking and applying) to give added strength to the decal. Have not resorted to trying that but it sounds like a good idea.
 
Per a "YouTube" video I recently watched, the modeler mentioned he used several different decal brands but had the best results with K4 brand decals. I am not a sponsor, just passing along some info. K4 may have something for your model so you can just go with new stuff.

John
 
westtexjohn said:
Per a "YouTube" video I recently watched, the modeler mentioned he used several different decal brands but had the best results with K4 brand decals. I am not a sponsor, just passing along some info. K4 may have something for your model so you can just go with new stuff.

John
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I use K4's decals,very easy to use, never had a problem, even when I renamed the switcher, and I'm useless at decals.
 
These decals came with the tank car - I know Labelle has bought a lot of older kit lines so who knows, they could be super old. The dullcote is a good idea, I'll give that a try and see if I can salvage the rest of the decals. If not, I have plans to (eventually...) have some custom decals made, so that would be another reason to get off my hind parts and get it done.
 
FWIW, I never transfer decals with the tweezers. I always slide them off the backing paper directly on the model. I rub a little water on the model surface first, and I never blot directly on the surface, but with the edge of a paper towel just off the decal. I also rarely use a setting solution unless I am decaling a rough surface and I want the decal to settle in. I dull coat all decals the next day after they dry. Also note that most decals will not adhere very well to bare plastic; you must apply either paint, clear coat or dull coat to the plastic surface first.
 
Vince-RA said:
. I used Microscale Micro Gloss to prep the surface, and Microscale Micro Sol to float/set the decals on the model.
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First off I'm not familiar with that brand, is it wood or plastic.
I also never used Micro gloss I just gloss coat the model but it sounds like it would work the same. Next you want to use Micro set to set the decal. Once that is dry then you put the Micro sol on. The Micro sol will set the decal and dissolve the film which helps it on unsmooth surfaces and smooth surfaces. That's why it's curling up on you.
When I decal I wet the decal with the paper backing for 30 seconds then set it on a paper towel. Then put the micro set on the car, then slide the decal off the paper to the car. I can then move it into position. Let it dry then put the Micro set or Walthers solvaset on to snug it down. Last thing after that dries is dull coat to seal. I some cases you may have to gloss coat the car first to get rid of any ghosting from the decal then dull coat. That'll will depend on the decal and surface color of the car.
 
Thanks all. This is a wood model, painted with Polly Scale - although in truth the paint I am using is probably a bit past prime and has gone on a bit lumpy. I did spray a light application of dullcote to see if that helps with this particular sheet. But sounds like overall I need to break my bad habits and clean up my garbage decaling technique at the very least.
 
I do the same as Willie, however (small point) I find that the torn edge of a paper napkin wicks off the water better than a paper towel.
I also keep a small sponge square in my decal dish. I can rest a soaked decal on the sponge to keep it moist. This trick has saved
me a few times when I fuss a bit to long setting a decal with another soaking decal has been in the water a bit too long. This mostly
happens when I do sets of numbers.
 
Followup - as mentioned, I did spray dullcote on the decal sheet. This made it really really hard to read them while on the sheet, but made all the difference in terms of them staying flat when sliding off the backing paper. They were even sturdy enough I could easily carry them around with tweezers if need be. However, as it turns out the road name decal is too big to fit where it's supposed to go 😆 Double checked my alignment of stake pockets and I got it exactly right, the decal is just too damn big. So I guess that settles things, and I'll plan to decal these with my custom road decals at some point in the future.
 
Had that problem with a brand new Walther's plastic model structure using all the same methods you tried. Ended up mixing a little bit of Elmer's white glue into the water I was using for the decal. That mostly solved the problem, but one decal still curled up on the edge as it was drying. Applied a slightly stronger mixture under the curled edge with a paint brush and the decal stuck like glue.
 
As mentioned above, I would not float the decal onto Micro Sol. Float onto Micro Set. My general technique is:

-Set the decal in distilled water for about 10-20 seconds (I use distilled because the water where I live is on the hard side), then set on a paper towel until it comes free of the backing
-Apply Micro Set to the area where the decal is to be applied
-Slide the decal directly from the paper to the surface
-Position the decal using a paintbrush wet with Micro Set (I have two dedicated soft sable brushes I use only for decals, one for Micro Set, one for Sol)
-I only blot if there is an excessive amount of water or solution under the decal, i.e. it's floating on the model still
-Allow to sit for a few minutes, then carefully apply a small amount of Micro Sol on top of the decal

Micro Sol really softens up a decal and is intended to help it stretch around details and surfaces, so I wouldn't recommend applying it until the decal is just about where you want it.

Microscale also makes something called Liquid Decal Film, which can be brushed or sprayed over decals before removing them from the paper. It can be used to save decals that would otherwise disintegrate or crack after soaking, and will reduce curling as well. However it makes the decal slightly thicker and thus more difficult to apply to compound surfaces.

Absent that, instead of spraying with dullcoat, I would probably spray the decal with glosscote.
 
CambriaArea51 said:
When I decal I wet the decal with the paper backing for 30 seconds then set it on a paper towel. Then put the micro set on the car, then slide the decal off the paper to the car. I can then move it into position. Let it dry then put the Micro set or Walthers solvaset on to snug it down. Last thing after that dries is dull coat to seal.
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Pretty much what I do as well; although. I don't use walthers stuff. I am also in agreeance with Dave, sounds to me as though they may be old decals OR you might be leaving them in water a tad too long, hence the curling up.
 
skyliner said:
I would not float the decal onto Micro Sol. Float onto Micro Set.
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I will correct myself and agree with @skyliner in terms of which Micro product to use when.

Micro Set should be used to slide the decal onto, that is what helps makes he decal stick better. Micro Sol should then be used around the "edge of the decal" and allow its capillary action to "suck the decal" down and around all uneven parts of the model it is being applied to.

You will not need much Micro Sol and will be able to SEE the decal being sucked around any uneven bits like rivets or any raised parts.

Personally, I think the naming of the products is a bit misleading - Micro Set suggests that is what should be used to et the decal where it is placed. Have no idea what Micro Sol suggests - short for "solution" in which case, you'd think that should be used first. Oh well - such is life :)
 
CambriaArea51 said:
Why.
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wombat457 said:
As @CambriaArea51 asked - why would you do that? Cover the decal once it is on the model with dullcote, or another clear coat, but spraying it on the decal itself ???
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I asked the same question on another forum, it seems that giving the decal a coat of dullcote (or varnish) just gives the decal a little extra strength so it doesn't tear easily when mounting or moving the decal around, useful if the decals your using are old ones that you've had for a few years
 
Smudge617 said:
I asked the same question on another forum, it seems that giving the decal a coat of dullcote (or varnish) just gives the decal a little extra strength so it doesn't tear easily when mounting or moving the decal around, useful if the decals your using are old ones that you've had for a few years
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Bad advice my friend - any form of clear coat leaves a "coating" on what ever it is sprayed and that coating "hardens" to act as a sealant. Spraying it onto "paper" or similar will make that paper, or this case the decal, brittle. IF the physical decal is not the exact same size as the backing paper, then the clear coat will adhere to both the backing paper AND decal making getting the decal off almost impossible, if not impossible.

It might sound good in theory - but in practice it is an abysmal and potentially costly failure!
 
Smudge617 said:
I asked the same question on another forum, it seems that giving the decal a coat of dullcote (or varnish) just gives the decal a little extra strength so it doesn't tear easily when mounting or moving the decal around, useful if the decals your using are old ones that you've had for a few years
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Never had that problem but I never float them in water either. I slide them off the paper onto the car so there's no tearing.
 
wombat457 said:
Bad advice my friend - any form of clear coat leaves a "coating" on what ever it is sprayed and that coating "hardens" to act as a sealant. Spraying it onto "paper" or similar will make that paper, or this case the decal, brittle. IF the physical decal is not the exact same size as the backing paper, then the clear coat will adhere to both the backing paper AND decal making getting the decal off almost impossible, if not impossible.

It might sound good in theory - but in practice it is an abysmal and potentially costly failure!
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When I printed the decal for the Auhagen storage tank that's what I did, as I only have a inkjet printer, (can't remember who it was, someone on the here on the forum mentioned that I would have to seal it with dullcote or something similar), which I did, and it worked a treat as you know.
 
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