Could you help me to identify this coach , please?

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Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
I have received this coach and I don't know which kind of coach it is exactly, or in which train it was used. I know this is a Walthers H0 model, but nothing apart from that. The model didn't have a box. Could you give me some clue on this coach?
This represents a Santa Fe "Palm" series 10-6 sleeper (10 roomettes, 6 double bedrooms) purchased from American Car and Foundry (ACF) in 1951. They ordered 13 cars in Lot #3359, Plan #9014.

According to research by Art House, the Walther's model is really a fluted side version of the Pennsy "Rapids" prototype built by Pullman Standard(PS). It differs from the real Santa Fe cars by having a "double belt rail below the window line". It is also almost a prototype of the Southern Railway "River" series.

According to all the photos I can find of the real Santa Fe cars, they did not have the narrow window by the door. I have been unable to track down the Walther's part number (Walther's has begun removing all discontinued items from their website!), but I do know they were released in late 2006 or early 2007. I believe the interior walls would probably have been a mint green, w/grey upholstery, tan Pullman blankets, and Santa Fe standard white head covers. As in these photos -> image image2 No idea about the carpet color - a darker grey?.

The "palm" series sleepers were mainly assigned to trains #19 & #20, the "Chief". [edit] They did probably did find their way on to other trains from time to time rarely on such trains as the California Limited, Texas Chief, Chicagoan, Kansas Cityan. More likely on the San Francisco Chief and Grand Canyon Limited, especially after 1968 when the Chief was cancelled. As discussed above they would have never been in the Fast Mail Express, El Capitan, or Super Chief.

The main difference in the ACF & the Budd 10-6 sleepers is that the vestibule end (end with the doors) is opposite, and of course the roof fluting on the Budd car runs length wise. EDIT - by opposite I mean the ACF car has the vestibule on the end with the 6 double bedrooms while the Budd car has the vestibule on the end with the 10 roomettes.
 
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tootnkumin

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Walthers have a habit of naming models for the wrong car. Try collecting the UP Heritage coaches. Several incorrect ones, or out of date details, window, interior etc, etc. Not to mention the underbody equipment. They just take one of their old production ones that's near enough, and bung a name on it. The Crew Car, "Willie James" is one such glaring example. It was a Budd 10-6 sleeper originally, converted into some sleeping accommodation, kitchen and lounge for the Heritage train. Window positioning is changed and roof vents over the Kitchen. The only Budd car in the fleet.
 
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Espeefan

Well-Known Member
Walthers has a pattern of "getting 90% there". I remember when the original Super Chief was issued. They used old tooling for the "Indian" series 4-4-2's instead of the Regals because they use up their tooling budget, so the train was all good except for that one car. Later on, demand was high enough for the correct car that they ran a Regal series 4-4-2. This was at the time of the second run of the train with plated cars. A limited number of painted cars were also produced, which I bought to finish my train. Walthers will eventually get it right, after they've tried everything else! ;) This kind of stuff is why there are a fair number of brass cars in my passenger trains. Not to slam Walthers. I'm sure there are very valid economic reasons for what they do, but it is frustrating to anticipate getting the "correct" train, only to get the "almost correct" train.
 

trailrider

Well-Known Member
I don't know about Walthers messing up their decorations, but if that is supposed to be a car on the Cal Zephyr, with the name "Silver Plate" and the door in the middle of the car, it is a dining car! The door is where the kitchen is so the cooks can upload their supplies, and also get a breath of fresh air! The fluting on the car's sides is typical of Budd-built passenger cars for the C.B.&Q, one of the lines that ran the CZ. Can't say for sure if the corrigation is correct in all respects. The "Q" named most of their passenger stock and streamlined diesel motive power "Silver something or other". In this case, the "Plate" part of the car name refers to the dishes that meals were served on. If you don't want it, send it to me, and I'll run it on my Zephyr. ;)
 

cv_acr

Active Member
Walthers have a habit of naming models for the wrong car.
Most manufacturers do this. Passenger cars are so unique to different roads and have enough variation that it's impossible to keep up with them.

All that can really be hoped for is that a model is made accurate for one particular prototype, but the odds of it matching other RRs are slim. But for the manufacturer to make back their investment, or for modelers of other railroads to ever get *anything* in their colours, they're going to offer additional stand-in paint schemes...
 

cv_acr

Active Member
I don't know about Walthers messing up their decorations, but if that is supposed to be a car on the Cal Zephyr, with the name "Silver Plate" and the door in the middle of the car, it is a dining car! The door is where the kitchen is so the cooks can upload their supplies, and also get a breath of fresh air! The fluting on the car's sides is typical of Budd-built passenger cars for the C.B.&Q, one of the lines that ran the CZ. Can't say for sure if the corrigation is correct in all respects. The "Q" named most of their passenger stock and streamlined diesel motive power "Silver something or other". In this case, the "Plate" part of the car name refers to the dishes that meals were served on. If you don't want it, send it to me, and I'll run it on my Zephyr. ;)
Yes, that one is a dining car. And modeled quite accurately by BLI.
 

Alcomotive

Grandson of ALCO Bldr
Hello,

I have received this coach and I don't know which kind of coach it is exactly, or in which train it was used. I know this is a Walthers H0 model, but nothing apart from that. The model didn't have a box. Could you give me some clue on this coach? Thanks in advance.

Kind Regards,

Juan.

View attachment 37786
View attachment 37787
View attachment 37788
Interesting question you started here. Something that I noticed as did everyone else no roof top vent...... BUT......there are side vents at the roof line where the side wall meets the start of the roof pitch. I was looking at some other pictures and these seem to only occur on sleepers cars. I see 3 of them in your picture on one side and possibly one on the opposite side?
 

tootnkumin

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Yes, that one is a dining car. And modeled quite accurately by BLI.
A couple of club members have the BLI models and the differences between them and the Walthers product is marked. Walthers have made improvements in the last releases by having first, factory installed grab irons and in the last runs, window gaskets and passenger figures installed (for a higher price). Otherwise, they appear to be the same cars as before.
 

Iron Horseman

Well-Known Member
Really, gentlemen, thanks a lot for all efforts you are taking to answer me. Thanks.
You are certainly welcome. And I have found some conflicting information. There is an article in Model Railroader, August 1993, by Andy Sperandeo [RIP] that states these cars were used in the Super Chief from 1951 to 1964. Knowing Andy this is probably accurate.

And here are the names that were used on the cars.
Palm Arch
Palm Dome
Palm Haven
Palm Leaf
Palm Loch
Palm Lore
Palm Path
Palm Star
Palm Stream
Palm Summit
Palm Top
Palm Tower
Palm View
 




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