Choosing a DCC Starter Set for Large Basement Layout

[jtomai]

Hi All, I have a large basement layout with about 150' of track. It wraps around the walls of a 24' x 18' room. I've already laid about 75 feet of track and have my busses and feeders in and running DC. Its time to add DCC before I go any further.

Ive heard of people using the Digitrac Zephr Xtra (3amps) to power basement layouts. Is that enough power? Or should I go for the Super Empire Builder (5amps)?

There will be 3 power districts in this layout.

 

[fast_ian]

...Ive heard of people using the Digitrac Zephr Xtra (3amps) to power basement layouts. Is that enough power?

How many locos do you envisage running at one time? "Modern" stuff is pretty efficient - Rarely draw more than 1/4A each, or up to say, 1/2A at stall. So, at least half a dozen could be *running* at one time.

Or should I go for the Super Empire Builder (5amps)?

*Personally* (and I'm sure there will be many who disagree ) I don't like the SEB's "write only programming" - It's a show stopper for me. I added a DT400R to my original Zephyr system for walkaround control for about the same price as the SEB....... IMO, the Xtra makes this an even more attractive option.

And remember, if you do "run out of power" Digitrax offer many booster options that'll take care of it.

There will be 3 power districts in this layout.

Two reversing loops? Nice! [I *dream* of being able to do that ]

As always, my 02c,
Cheers,
Ian

 

[jtomai]

SO the Zephr Xtra is programmable? F0-F28? I mean, what can it do exactly? Im really close to ordering one cause for $175 it looks like a lot of DCC for starting out.

 

[Espeefan]

If you are going to have a large layout go for the Super Chief if you want Digitrax. The Empire builder sets have no capability for a separate programming track, and while the Zephyr does, it's small for what you are going to be doing. You could also consider NCE or even MRC (though MRC would be my last choice). All have their advantages.

Don't under-buy your DCC system, or you'll just end up spending even more to expand it to what you really need before you know it!

 

[Cjcrescent]

SO the Zephr Xtra is programmable? F0-F28? I mean, what can it do exactly? Im really close to ordering one cause for $175 it looks like a lot of DCC for starting out.

Just about all the newer systems, meaning those produced in the past year or so, now can program F0-F28. I don't know about the other brands but if you have an older system that can handle only F0-F12, for a nominal fee Digitrax will upgrade their products to F0-F28. For me the most important thing with any system, is to be able to read back any CV that has been programmed into a decoder. For that reason alone I would choose the Zephyr over the SEB.

 

[fast_ian]

SO the Zephr Xtra is programmable? F0-F28? I mean, what can it do exactly? Im really close to ordering one cause for $175 it looks like a lot of DCC for starting out.

I agree, it really is a lot of DCC for the money.

Many questions above, really requiring some "background" first:

- The base/command station (doesn't matter which version) isn't "programmable" per-se, but rather allows you to program decoders - eg, you can set "start voltage" on a loco by loco basis. "Top speed" is also programmable - from - the base station. You can even do a complete speed curve (think exponential) and much more magic that need not concern us for now.....

To me, and I've already said some may disagree, the ability to *read* what you've got in, eg, CV02 ("Start voltage") is helpful - I like *knowing* what I'm changing! Both the Zephyr & Super Chief support this, the SEB doesn't.

Furthermore, and IMO more significantly, the Zephyr & SC have a separate, low powered, output to feed a "programming track" - This can be an isolated section of your pike with a switch controlling which output reaches it - ie, it can be an integral part of your layout for general use and switched to make it the programming track - You drive your loco onto it, flip the switch to "program output" and can now read and write any CV's without disturbing anything else on the layout.

The SEB only supports what they call "broadcast write" which sends programming commands to the entire layout - Which should therefore have everything else either removed and/or disconnected - That way you know you're only "hitting" the target decoder. Did the change take? You really have no way of knowing as you can't ask the base station to "display the value of CV02".

Furthermore, I believe the SEB programs at "full power", which never seemed like a good idea to me - You've got to really mess up to smoke a decoder on the programming track......

As for F0-F28 - Their web site certainly claims the new Zephyr will do it, but I don't have one so can't test it..... My original version says it will address F0-F8, but I do know that coupled with the DT400 I can access at least thru F12, which is as far as I've needed. I guess there's some kind of "shift" function on the Zephyr that allows you to access these high F#'s.

Incidentally, the detailed description of the Zephyr on their site has not been updated with details of the new version, only the comparison chart.....

HTH, cheers,
Ian

 

[jdtoronto]

I think you should look at the NCE and Lenz offerings too. I only have a baby layout, but I haven't found anything yet that my Lenz can't handle. NCE is not only good (but I don't own one) they are also US based and have excellent customer support and a gret expandable range of product.

John

 

[fast_ian]

If you are going to have a large layout go for the Super Chief if you want Digitrax.

I respectfully disagree - Here's why:

- He apparently has 3 power blocks - *IF* extra power is needed, it's super easy to power one or both of these additional blocks with a separate booster - Not all the eggs are in one basket.....
- Price wise, the Zephyr + a DT400 gives you a static throttle and a walkaround for a little less than the SC - OK, it doesn't have the power, but that's easily and inexpensively added.
- Flexibility - Digitrax (rightly IMHO) makes a big deal of the expandability of their system - Add to it as and when needed, never any need to replace anything. [I assume the others also do this, but have no experience, so can't comment] I really like Loconet!

The good news (for me!) is that it appears I can upgrade both my Zephyr and DT400 to the latest (I guess not power, but F# access) - Which is nice in these days of built in obsolesence! Again, I guess the others also offer this, but can't comment.

As always, my 02c,
Cheers,
Ian

 

[fast_ian]

NCE is not only good (but I don't own one) they are also US based and have excellent customer support and a gret expandable range of product.

Digitrax are also US based, and their support generally gets great reviews - I guess I'm about to find out when I send my stuff back for upgrade.....

Cheers,
Ian

 

[Espeefan]

I respectfully disagree - Here's why:

- He apparently has 3 power blocks - *IF* extra power is needed, it's super easy to power one or both of these additional blocks with a separate booster - Not all the eggs are in one basket.....
- Price wise, the Zephyr + a DT400 gives you a static throttle and a walkaround for a little less than the SC - OK, it doesn't have the power, but that's easily and inexpensively added.
- Flexibility - Digitrax (rightly IMHO) makes a big deal of the expandability of their system - Add to it as and when needed, never any need to replace anything. [I assume the others also do this, but have no experience, so can't comment] I really like Loconet!

The good news (for me!) is that it appears I can upgrade both my Zephyr and DT400 to the latest (I guess not power, but F# access) - Which is nice in these days of built in obsolesence! Again, I guess the others also offer this, but can't comment.

As always, my 02c,
Cheers,
Ian

No big deal...the exchange of ideas is what the forum is for.

I would choose a 5 amp system, not because of districts, but what's going to run on them. Multiple unit lashups, possibly sound equipped, lit passenger cars, and who knows what else. It's easier to soak up three amps than you think. I prefer to follow the same rule as when buying a computer. Buy as much system as you can afford now...don't short buy and then wish you'd gotten the extra capability. I did this with the SEB, then wished I'd bought the SC. The SC will cost less than the Zephyr plus a DT-400 plus a booster and do the same thing. Possible failure of a booster still leaves you stuck anyway, at least as far as full capability would be concerned. Go for the SC!

Now I use NCE. Lenz and NCE also offer expandability, backwards compatibility, and upgrades for nominal fees.

 

[Cjcrescent]

No big deal...the exchange of ideas is what the forum is for...

Now I use NCE. Lenz and NCE also offer expandability, backwards compatibility, and upgrades for nominal fees.

Alan;

I suspected that each of the manufacturers would do the same as Digitrax, but I wasn't sure. Thanx for that info.

 

[fast_ian]

No big deal...the exchange of ideas is what the forum is for.

+1 and thankyou!

I was starting to worry I was pissing folk off! I never *mean* to do that

It does however seem "we" are all in agreement that the SEB is not the way to go - I also remember pretty much the same sentiments about it a few years back when I was buying.... Particularly now they've upped the power of the Z, I'd guess it's not long for this world - But, Digitrax will continue to support it I'm sure.

Back to the OP...... "Pays your money, takes your choice." Good luck with whatever you choose.

Cheers,
Ian
PS - How many operators do you envisage? Are you going radio?

 

[jdtoronto]

Ian,

I did not mean to detract from DigiTrax at all and sorry if you saw it that way. AJ and his crew offer a high quality product with excellent service and support.

All I meant to point out was that there are other choices equally as valid and as good as DigiTrax.

Cheers, John

Digitrax are also US based, and their support generally gets great reviews - I guess I'm about to find out when I send my stuff back for upgrade.....

Cheers,
Ian

 

[fast_ian]

I suspected that each of the manufacturers would do the same as Digitrax, but I wasn't sure. Thanx for that info.

+1

I reckon we may almost be in the "golden age" of DCC

Multiple manufacturers keeping each other "honest" has gotta be good for us!

Cheers,
Ian

 

[fast_ian]

Ian,

I did not mean to detract from DigiTrax at all and sorry if you saw it that way.

No apologies needed! [Thanks though!]

But I'll admit I did (obviously mistakenly ) read your comment as implying they may not be. My bad!

Cheers,
Ian
<Group hug>

 

[DoubleDAZ]

Now I'm more confused than ever, so I guess it's time to head to the LHS and see what they have to say and show me, assuming they know and have DCC systems to sell. I hate doing that though because chances are their prices are going to be too high for my wallet.

 

[jdtoronto]

Now I'm more confused than ever, so I guess it's time to head to the LHS and see what they have to say and show me, assuming they know and have DCC systems to sell. I hate doing that though because chances are their prices are going to be too high for my wallet.

Simple, ask others around town.

If you use the same as they do then you will have a natural support group!

 

[DoubleDAZ]

Simple, ask others around town.

If you use the same as they do then you will have a natural support group!

Yeah, Carey said the same thing a couple of days ago and I intend to follow that advice. I suspect any system will satisfy my needs for a 4x8 N-scale layout, even with 2 reversing loops.

 

[jdtoronto]

Yeah, Carey said the same thing a couple of days ago and I intend to follow that advice. I suspect any system will satisfy my needs for a 4x8 N-scale layout, even with 2 reversing loops.

Very true. What you are doing is pretty small really, I have seen much more complex layouts on some pretty basic DCC gear.

Don't underestimate the locals. You will inevitably have issues and questions, if you are using something they are familiar with then you will find it easy to get help and configuration advice and assistance. Possibly way more than you want or need, but that's another story.

John

 

[jtomai]

Thanks all for the advice and wisdom. After long consideration and painful back and forth between Digitrax and NCE I decided to Pony up the $$ and get the NCE Power Pro 5 amp Wireless System. Here is why: While Digitrax Super Empire builder offered a 5 amp system and the cheapest price (around $280) however, it did not feature a programming track, nor could it read CV values from Locomotives. -Features I decided I wanted. The Digitrax Super Chief did do all this, and had 5 amps and had wireless, and it was around $500 even. Well its like waiting for a train for 20 minutes. Whats an additional 10 minutes. So I ponied up the extra $60-80 bucks for the loaded NCE system and Im totally happy.

Within 5 minutes it was set up. Within 20 minutes my 4 year old son was running a train all by himself.

-John