CB&Q color?


goscrewyourselves

I'm the one
Might have asked this already and sorry if I have but, what color does everyone use for the CB&Q F engines? I have looked and can't seem to find any paint that is already made for them other than the Chinese Red.

RhMtu5L.jpg


It seems to be an "off white" or a "cream" but would like to get a color that is as close as possible due to having a CB&Q F7 A unit from Kato. Need to try to color match the "cream" for the B unit I am painting.
 
what color does everyone use for the CB&Q F engines?
Good old grey backs that never looked grey to me. Officially, Badger Modelflex #165-16193 CB&Q Imitation Aluminum. Aluminum is one of those "colors" that look very different under different types of light. Hence the huge disagreement and confusion on the subject. They always look more beige to me.

In the olden days it was said the most of the correct paint for the gray is Scale Coat #68 CP Gray.

Many people just used reefer white with a couple drops of black in it.
 
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Horseman,

Thanks mate. I have reefer white, engine black and weathered black from Modelflex so I'll see how that goes. Otherwise, looks like another purchase for the imitation aluminium.
 
I would agree that it looks to be mostly a whitish silver color; or dove gray. However, at the Chicago Museum of Science and Industry the old streamlined Silver Steak Zephyr locomotive they have on display is bare Aluminum and definitely silver in color. It makes me wonder if they where attempting to come up with a paint to simulate the bare aluminum silver color of the Silver Streak.
 
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Mark,

CB&Q used two different paint schemes. They did use "silver", primarily for their passenger engines but the freight color was (apparently) Imitation Aluminium that does present as a white, or cream or off white depending on the lighting conditions.

I probably need to re phrase my question. What I am attempting to do is replicate the color that Kato used to paint their factory painted CB&Q engines rather than what the "actual color" used by CB&Q back then was. It is replicating the Kato color that is the problem.

None of the suggested colors for the CB&Q freight color seems to be any where near that which Kato has used, at least not by looking at the available paint swatches and comparing the colors by eye.
 
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Would asking Kato what they used as a color, be a possibility?
 
I think I have "stumbled across" a pretty close color match for the Kato color made up of the following Modelflex colors:

1/3 oz Reefer White
3 drops of weathered black
3 drops of engine black
24 drops of armour yellow

I'll see how it looks on the B unit compared to A unit before I say it IS close though.
 
So, this is the reply I received from Kato:

...I’m afraid I cannot. The paints used by our factory are not off-the-shelf paints but custom mixes and dyes...

I may be wrong but, that kind of defeats the purpose of having rail road name colors doesn't it?
 
Color is determined by the wavelengths that are reflected as well as those that are absorbed. I would have to assume that almost any component variation would result in a different color being transmitted from the object under different source lighting. That would be because different lighting will likely omit certain wavelengths, so it's not there to reflect back. I would think the only possible opportunity for the same color to be displayed under varying lighting would be to use the original paint, which isn't possible in your situation.

In my view, the closest you'll ever get is to do the color matching under the same lighting as the model will be observed most of the time. When you take the models into an environment with different source lighting, you can be almost certain of a color mismatch. As an example, you wouldn't want fluorescent lighting over your workbench where you do you color testing, then move the models to the layout where you use incandescent flood lights. The paint just won't perform the same on both models.
 
deanej,

Thanks and basically what you are suggesting is what I am attempting to do ... create the same (or as close to as possible) under the lighting that the train will be run under. This is proving to be harder than I expected or thought it would be :(
 
Well, thought I had it pretty close BUT, nope - nothing like it sooo, looks as though the only way I am going to be happy is to buy the thing already painted.

From now on I'm only buying a road name where the colors exist.
 
The one saving grace would be that paint was applied at different times on different locomotives. I would guess that the paint shop had a formula for the mix; but, even so the paint will always look slightly different. It's possible right now that the "B" unit you buy today won't exactly match your older "A" unit. I guess I'm just not as fussy about all this as some people are. The gold I used on my and Alco RS-3 and the old SW I had, didn't match my Atlas RS-1 and I can live with it. Weathering helps camouflage some of these problems.
 
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The Pioneer Zephyr, #9900, in the Museum of Science & Industry is not aluminum. It is stainless steel, as were all the "shovel nose" Zephyrs (#9900-9908). When the Q took delivery of their E-5's, they were also primarily stainless steel. However, later passenger units were, in some cases, painted to resemble the stainless units. The freight diesels, FT through F7's were painted in that "grayback" color, which to me looks white. I also suspect that exposure to sun and weather caused the freight units to change color slightly to just about white. The exception was the F3's used for a time on the California Zephyr, which were painted to match the E-units in passenger service. When those sets of F3A-B-A were returned to freight service, they were left in the passenger silver color.
 
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Stainless steel Aluminum, who cares!
 
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Stainless steel Aluminum, who cares!
If you are talking about what color to put on a model, nobody, I suppose. If you are talking about the Budd Company and the Burlington Route in the 1930's to '50's, then I guess they did. Anywho, just letting folks know the facts.
 
I absolutely agree with you that they where built from stainless! So, once again, I stand corrected!

As far as Authentic Colors are concerned, the latest issue of the Northern Pacific Railway Historical Associations (NPRHA) magazine, "The Mainstreeter" draws attention to the Gold color used on the Hornby/Rivarossi N.P. U28Cs as being incorrect, so the factory can't get colors right all the time, either! This fact, among other "Foe Paws" made by those who are supposed to be very knowledgeable about color schemes, makes me drop my need for absolute correctness! I feel in this case "Close" get's me the "Cigar".
 
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Just to be clear here ... the only color I am trying to replicate is the one Kato used, I don't give a hoot if "that" color is authentic for the real railroad or not.

This is not about trying to achieve absolute correctness for the railroad name or the era, it is about aesthetics and wanting to have things "look" as good and "as color compatible" as they can possibly be gotten in the hobby world. In other words, I want both units (A and B) to be the same color regardless of what that color is.

The actual issue for me is that Kato "creates its own color" and does not make that color available for those of us who choose to try their hand at painting a particular railroad to match what kato paints in the factory. If that color was available for their version of the road name, there would be no issue at all.

With regards exact (rivet counting) color matching. The ONLY way to obtain an exact, precise, 100%, perfect color match is to know the exact, precise, 100%, perfect color the actual railway used/uses. Who made it, the formula used to make it and everything about it; otherwise, all that can be achieved is something similar, something that (to the naked eye perhaps) appears accurate.

Bottom line here is, as an example, you could paint a Conrail engine almost any shade of blue similar or close to the perceived color used by Conrail and you'd be correct. Why, because paint fades, gets dirty and stained, ages and not every mix of a color turns out to be 100% identicle to the last so the paint chosen would, most likely, match the way a Conrail blue looked at some point in it's life.

Fact, Kato makes/creates it's own shade of whatever the color is for the CB&Q F7/F3. It isn't available to the public; therefore, it cannot be replicated exactly. And that, gentlemen, essentially answers the question originally posted.
 
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I absolutely agree with you that they where built from stainless! So, once again, I stand corrected!

As far as Authentic Colors are concerned, the latest issue of the Northern Pacific Railway Historical Associations (NPRHA) magazine, "The Mainstreeter" draws attention to the Gold color used on the Hornby/Rivarossi N.P. U28Cs as being incorrect, so the factory can't get colors right all the time, either! This fact, among other "Foe Paws" made by those who are supposed to be very knowledgeable about color schemes, makes me drop my need for absolute correctness! I feel in this case "Close" get's me the "Cigar".
The problem of getting the "correct" colors to match photos of prototype rolling stock (or buildings for that matter) is that in the "Transition Period", the color film used didn't necessarily reproduce the colors of the equipment being photographed. Lighting conditions altered the color rendition. I forget which one it was, but certain Kodocolor film tended to enhance the blue tones, especially at sunrise and sunset. Even where paint chip samples were available, getting a paint mix "just right" to match the chip depends on what kind of indoor lighting is being used. Daylight versus indoor fluorescent bulbs will really mess up the apparent hue on a model. It's enough to make a modeler "anti-chromatic"! :rolleyes: (Hint: Go with steam locomotives painted "grimy black". But, then again, what color "duplicates" the no-longer produced "graphite and oil"?) I yield the stump.
 
Tony-
Just keep mixing small quantities of paint until you get close, mate! Oh, and BTW, keep a record of how many drops of what you used to get it, so, if you need more you won't have to start all over! I know from bitter experience! :p
 



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