Can you run 2 trains simultaneously on 1 track without DCC?


Thebrickfig

Thebrickfig

Member
I don’t know if this is a stupid question but I really want to know since trains with DCC are on the more pricey end. And the controller for it can be over 500CAD.
 
Short answer is no.

Longer answer is it takes 2 power packs, and isolated segments, but the 2 trains never run on the same segment at the same time.
 
Actually the answer is yes. But with severe limitations. There is no separate control, they both run along in tandem. Slow one down and the other slows with it. Invariably without blocks, one will catch up with the other at some point. If the layout is long enough and divided into blocks that can be turned off and on, one train can be paused briefly if it is catching up to the other. Or one can be pulled into a siding and switched off to accomplish the same thing. Most power packs will deliver ample amperage to run 3-4 locos at the same time, hence the ability to "double-head" your consists.
 
Be careful with your first step into DCC. You'll be tempted to buy the cheapest system available only to find that it does things a bit different than what most other people have. You won't have the pool of people familiar with your system for help. You'll find that you'll need to buy other parts to make it do what most other systems do.
You'll be lured by those who claim their system only takes two steps to dial up a locomotive instead of the laborious and complex 3 steps of another system. You'll be wooed by the systems that can show you your emails on the throttle system as well as run your whole layout without you even being there or they have secret operating files that only European modelers have access too. In short, go cheap, be disappointed.
 
so as Willie say even if you have two stopping places exactly half way, and set off 2 locos at the same time the chances of both being able to stop correctly at the next station is slim, and the longer you run the worse the issue, and one may end up pushing the other, not a good idea.But as suggested you have some get out of gaol options, but if your buying all new and want them to run, you may find it cheaper long term to look at a different option. But if your pocket is tight, and DC is preferred you have some easement.
I have DCC many people do, but a lot have DC and prefer it, because the other ends up with lots of additional costs. If running one train usually suits your layout,and a lot really do not need loads of DCC options, and could comfortably have just one main running train especially if you have a long train.
Endless cash,lots of room,lots of time is not in everyone’s reach, and one just needs to decide how much of those you have or want to invest. My brother runs a small DC roundly roundly, he adds cat food to the last wagon and he and his cat have hours of fun.
If you run DC and tend to look at older locos and wagons they can look just as good as a more expensive system, although you will likely look at set track to save costs, it is just a matter of making what’s best for you work.
I know at least one person who runs 2 DC lines that are seperate but look like they are joined and cleverly makes it look so good it is hard to know the difference, he is also penny pinching, and makes a lot for his layout saving costs, I would drag him here to show off his work,but at the moment he is out of favour with forums and is not a fan of YouTube, but I would think others exist on YouTube if you use the right search words :)
Regardless there are some well informed posters here who will offer good advice, me I rarely get near the track the other half has control of the controls lol, I usually stick to the scenic side where I get a free hand,
Godd luck, I for one would be very happy to see a new DC layout play at being DCC :)
 
santafewillie said:
Actually the answer is yes. But with severe limitations. There is no separate control, they both run along in tandem. Slow one down and the other slows with it. Invariably without blocks, one will catch up with the other at some point. If the layout is long enough and divided into blocks that can be turned off and on, one train can be paused briefly if it is catching up to the other. Or one can be pulled into a siding and switched off to accomplish the same thing. Most power packs will deliver ample amperage to run 3-4 locos at the same time, hence the ability to "double-head" your consists.
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I agree w/Willy. I have ran 2 to 4 trains on the same rail at the same time. I had 3 Blocks on the last layout that would hold a long train, but I had a large layout to handle them. This Layout I'm building now will have a few Blocks too.
 
OP wrote:
"trains with DCC are on the more pricey end. And the controller for it can be over 500CAD."

It doesn't have to be this way.

You can find slightly used engines (on ebay, etc.), or perhaps new-old-stock Proto2000 and Proto1000 engines.

Then, upgrade them to "basic dcc" (by "basic", I mean dcc with light controls, but NO sound). Decoders run $20-25 (US).

Some decoder installs are simple "plug ins" (plug the decoder into a plug for it, either 8 or 9 or 21 pins). Some require a bit more work, cleaning up the inside wiring, putting in lights, etc. Just a little patience and time.

As far as dcc hardware controllers go, I'd recommend a hardware "box" that has wifi and will work with the FREE Roco z21 control software.

Something like the Roco z21 "white box" (generally has to be bought from European sources), or the soon-to-be-released YaMoRC YD1000 universal controller (from Iron Planet Hobbies in the USA).

I picked up a Digikeijs DR5000 universal hardware controller used from ebay some time back for $108. Runs better than "the higher priced stuff" from "the usual sources".

Got a smartphone or tablet?
Android or iOS, doesn't matter.
Go to either the App Store or google play.
Enter "roco z21" in the search box.
You should see a red engine on a blue background.
Install this software and fool around with it.
It won't hurt or affect anything else and it's FREE.
You'll see what I mean.
 
The correct answer is that you can run multiple locomotives on any one discretely powered segment of trackage in both control systems. However, only in DCC can you make any of the locomotives perform separate functions, and move in opposite directions along the axis of that discretely powered segment, concurrently. In DC, all locomotives will perforce move in the same direction in concert, perhaps at different speeds due to variances in gearing or in assembly. If one of the locomotives is impelled to change directions, all of them are. Not so in DCC.

So, to put a fine point on it, you can put two locomotives facing either short or long hood forward, or steamers tender or boiler first, at opposite ends of that segment of trackage, and make them move toward each other and couple together when they touch. You can only do that in DC if there is a gap between the couplers when they touch, and if there are two segments of discretely powered rails, one under each locomotive.

If the locomotives are dual-mode DCC, you can make them blow whistles, do 'neutral sounds', ring the bells, and turn lights on and off independently of each other, and as quickly as you can press buttons on your control paddle to effect those functions. In DC, if you flick the reverse switch, or do other things to get some effects from the decoder, all locomotives equipped with those DC functions will do the same things at the same time. So, if all have a Tsunami in them, and the Tsunami rings the bell with one quick reverse switch tug, all locomotives will ring their bells simultaneously. In DCC, only the addressed locomotive, the one 'active' on the throttle, will ring its bell.
 
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Good advice from everybody. And to sum it up with what's been said before.......................

With DC control, you run your tracks, not your trains.
With DCC control, you run your trains, not your track.

Absolutely nothing wrong with either system, just depends on whichever way one wishes to go.
 
I agree with Mixed Freight, also if you want, at a later date, update to DCC, you can, and if you look around, it's not that expensive, decoders you can fit yourself, the controller would be the most expensive part.
 
You can have a section of the track isolated with it's own switch so a train can wait before continuing. However with only one controller when all the track is active the trains will be moving at almost the same speed, they will be different speeds as the motors will be different so one will eventually catch up with the other.
Not sure how many m-amps a train draws from the controller but I have done this on the layout I had a a kid. One of the lines had my station as the isolated zone.. one train moves out as one is arriving to stop at the station. I had a push button to turn that section of track on and off.
 
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Smudge617 said:
I agree with Mixed Freight, also if you want, at a later date, update to DCC, you can, and if you look around, it's not that expensive, decoders you can fit yourself, the controller would be the most expensive part.
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Absolutely. And I'll let everyone in on a little secret...........................

An NCE PowerCab "Starter" System is really a full-blown DCC control system. The only thing that makes it a "starter" system is the small, wall-wart transformer that limits one to about 4~5 or so locomotives on the layout. And this "starter" system is very affordable, and upgradable.

Digitrax may also have a similar, affordable starter system, along with others too. But I'm most familiar with the NCE DCC systems.
 
Mixed Freight said:
Digitrax may also have a similar, affordable starter system, along with others too. But I'm most familiar with the NCE DCC systems
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I've the Digitrax Zephyr, one of the reasons I bought it was that you can add a whole host of extras like throttles etc
 
I was considering a minitrix DCC starter set when I was shopping around. What is the compatibility like between systems? Someone told me it's a bit of a minefield with different standards and minitrix was using out of date controllers or something which kind of put me off the whole DCC thing. My (new) Kato trains are DCC friendly what ever that means (apparently that can mean different things too) 🤯
 
dgrafix said:
I was considering a minitrix DCC starter set when I was shopping around. What is the compatibility like between systems? Someone told me it's a bit of a minefield with different standards and minitrix was using out of date controllers or something which kind of put me off the whole DCC thing. My (new) Kato trains are DCC friendly what ever that means (apparently that can mean different things too) 🤯
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Now you've opened a minefield in regards to DCC system's, we've had this discussion many time before and their are varying opinion's, everyone has their favourite.

But it's really down to the individual and what you can afford, versus what do you want it to do, will you have multiple operators, do you intend to have a much larger layout, do you want to walk around without the hassle of cables, the list really get's quite long. If it's just for you, then a simple starter set like the Digitrax Zephyr or NCE Power Cab would work for you, but other member's will have different opinions.

I would look at Digitrax and NCE, they seem to be quite popular, and both can be expanded, with extra throttles etc. if you want, their are others such as Gaugemaster, Bachmann, Lenz and even Hornby (stay away from Hornby, tho) plus many more.

As for you Kato Trains being DCC friendly, that implies they are DCC ready, so a socket is already installed in the locomotive for you to insert your decoder of choice. (the box should read DCC Ready) and installing a decoder into an older locomotive that is pre DCC isn't difficult either, I've done around 40 or so, other members far more.
 
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dgrafix said:
I was considering a minitrix DCC starter set when I was shopping around. What is the compatibility like between systems? Someone told me it's a bit of a minefield with different standards and minitrix was using out of date controllers or something which kind of put me off the whole DCC thing. My (new) Kato trains are DCC friendly what ever that means (apparently that can mean different things too) 🤯
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I have and NCE Starter Set, which is far from a 'starter' set! I've had it about 15 years or so now and it's never let me down. I also have a Roco z21 as I thought having all the features on a screen would be great, I used it once and went back to the NCE. The reason I like it is because it is simple and bomb-proof. I don't know how many times I've dropped the handset, or poured liquid over it, it has always worked faultlessly.

Others of course swear by the systems they use, and it really is a personal choice as to what you go for. I'd avoid sets from the likes of Bachmann and Hornby as these really are starter systems (despite what they say about the Dynamis and Elite!) Some of the European DCC systems aren't compatible with decoders from other manufacturers, so that can quickly ramp up prices and can lead to quite involved installations.

NCE, MRC/Gaugemaster, Ecos, Roco (z/Z21 - which is also marketed as Fleischmann), Digitax and to a lesser extent, Lenz are good systems and all are expandable if you need it.

If I remember correctly you are an N-Scale modeller? If so Kato N Scale locos and units aren't always straight-forward to convert to DCC, it usually involves the removal of the existing circuit board and replacement with another with a built in decoder. It isn't hard to do though, and there are countless guides and videos online to help (DCC Friendly is the best description for them). Some newer Kato units do just need a Kato decoder to slide in such as the Hitatchi Azuma units, these need 3 decoders per set (one power and 2 lighting)

The reason Kato aren't straight forward DCC ready is because DCC is not well used in Japan, which is their home, and worlds largest, N Scale market.
 
Smudge617 said:
Now you've opened a minefield in regards to DCC system's, we've had this discussion many time before and their are varying opinion's, everyone has their favourite.

But it's really down to the individual and what you can afford, versus what do you want it to do, will you have multiple operators, do you intend to have a much larger layout, do you want to walk around without the hassle of cables, the list really get's quite long. If it's just for you, then a simple starter set like the Digitrax Zephyr or NCE Power Cab would work for you, but other member's will have different opinions.

I would look at Digitrax and NCE, they seem to be quite popular, and both can be expanded, with extra throttles etc. if you want, their are others such as Gaugemaster, Bachmann, Lenz and even Hornby (stay away from Hornby, tho) plus many more.

As for you Kato Trains being DCC friendly, that implies they are DCC ready, so a socket is already installed in the locomotive for you to insert your decoder of choice. (the box should read DCC Ready) and installing a decoder into an older locomotive that is pre DCC isn't difficult either, I've done around 40 or so, other members far more.
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Oops sorry :oops: I guess it is like a computer forum when someone says "Which is the best programming language or Linux distro" 😆
Yes they have sockets for it but have no clue what to get (also i have some bachman DC trains. How to convert those with the Kato ones to run on the same system? But for my layout it is only 2 ovals, a reversing loop, some sidings and train storage so maybe Analogue DC is all i need.
After all it only really has room to run 2 or 3 trains at a time anyway.
Still it would be interesting to learn more.
Thanks for the information though guys, i am learning more every day :)
If i ever get a chance for more room (like when my son finally moves out i may be asking for advice with a list of what i have amassed and what i can do with it 😁, until then i guess i will stick with my 2 DC controllers and a lot of DPDT switches and isolators)
 
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dgrafix said:
Oops sorry :oops: I guess it is like a computer forum when someone says "Which is the best programming language or Linux distro" 😆
Yes they have sockets for it but have no clue what to get (also i have some bachman DC trains. How to convert those with the Kato ones to run on the same system? But for my layout it is only 2 ovals, a reversing loop, some sidings and train storage so maybe Analogue DC is all i need.
After all it only really has room to run 2 or 3 trains at a time anyway.
Still it would be interesting to learn more.
Thanks for the information though guys, i am learning more every day :)
If i ever get a chance for more room (like when my son finally moves out i may be asking for advice with a list of what i have amassed and what i can do with it 😁, until then i guess i will stick with my 2 DC controllers and a lot of DPDT switches and isolators)
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Well, we're here to help, so when your ready, just ask.
 
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