Can we talk Brands


Hutch

Hutch

Well-Known Member
I really like BLI and thus far have had zero problems. Watching some YT videos I'm seeing lots of problems, mostly with smoke units which I don't have. That being said, is there another brand that can compete with them that are as detailed, have good smoke units and sounds?
 
I'm N scale, so my experiences may differ.

I like that BLI seems to have a lot of product availability. The have a good breadth of product offering, and good depth within each item.

There always seems to be more BLI locos available than there are from most other manufacturers. But I'm not a fan of their QC or their Paragon decoders, especially the sounds. In the past 2 years, I have acquired several Atlas, a couple Kato and one BLI locomotive. Only the BLI I bought had to back for warranty work. It was DOA.

But I will say that once it came back, it is a very good runner... But I usually mute the sounds.

I'm not familiar with HO, but in N scale, I would put Atlas as the closest competitor. Good runners with good sounds. I would say KAto, but Kato has been slow to get into the sound offerings.
 
I like BLI but they seem to be the only player for good steam engines with sound and smoke. That's where my interest lies. I'm surprised there's no competition other than Bachmann, which I suppose might make a good one in upper end models, I don't really know. I have a couple of their models one of them is from the Spectrum line with dcc and sound, no smoke. This seems like the only option for Bachmann these days.
 
My primary interest lies in O gauge/scale. Lionel is my favorite brand.

I also have some Williams by Bachmann and MTH. Both make quality products in O gauge/scale.

Having said that I do have both HO and N scale locomotives. In HO Athearn Genesis is the highest level of detail I have. Too much detail for me as they are fragile!
Bachmann's Spectrum locomotives are also impressive.
 
Scale Trains makes some top-level HO locomotives. They equip them with the ESU decoders. As long as they stay away from the Select decoder and stick with the DCC5 that can take downloadable sound files, they'll be good.
Another good manufacturer is Rapido. While limited in their offerings, they are good runners too.
Athearn Genesis series is doing well. I don't know of any that provide smoke though.
BLI seems unsettled in their decoder selection. They started with the Paragon decoder then went to QSI which I think was a problematic decoder, then they came back to Paragon 2, then Paragon 3, then they went to the ESU decoder for a few of their models then dropped that for what I understand to be another ESU that really wasn't ESU but had all the same features except the ESU logo or manufacturer ID.
MTH has some very good looking models but their DCS decoder is a deal breaker. I would only buy them if they were straight DC then I could install my own decoder. If ya try to swap out their decoder for a standard DCC decoder you'll find that it won't run the MTH motor. Also, the lighting LEDs are the opposite of what everyone else uses so they won't work from a standard DCC decoder.
 
Rivarossi, Bachmann, BLI, Rapido, and Athearn all have very good steamers in HO. Their dud rate is probably 7-10% across the board, no matter if it's diesel or steam, and that's also across each of those companies. Happily, in my experience, and based on my reading across five forums, each company stands behind what they sell and will do what they can, parts depending, or available stock depending, to help keep you as a customer.

I have, and would recommend, diesels and steamers from each of them, but also Atlas (diesel only), whose Master Gold product is right at the top in my books. Don't overlook the spendy Trix steamers. You'll pay through the nose for one of their excellent steamers, but man are they nice.

The Chinese factories where these are assembled use itinerant and unskilled workers for their runs. Everything is assembled by hand. QA is only as good as the receivers/contractors are willing to pay for. The rest, they eat and hope you'll accept a refurbished or repaired item, or one of their other products if they can't give you the same thing.
 
Hutch said:
I really like BLI and thus far have had zero problems. Watching some YT videos I'm seeing lots of problems, mostly with smoke units which I don't have. That being said, is there another brand that can compete with them that are as detailed, have good smoke units and sounds?
Click to expand...

What scale? And since you mention smoke, should we assume you just mean steam locomotives?

I do HO and primarily diesel, but have a handful of steam locomotives for fun. This includes three BLI steamers: an ATSF 2-8-2 light mikado, ATSF 2-10-2, and an SP&S 4-8-4. The first two are several years old, the latter is fairly new. Of those, the mikado has been problem-free, still runs great and smooth. The 2-10-2 has been problematic. It ran fine for a while, then started making 'wheezing' noises when running, and "ticking" sounds when sitting idle. I suspect the DCC board is going bad, as the "ticking" sounds like electronic relays cycling. Someday I'll probably have it repaired, or the electronics replaced, but for now it's sitting in the closet.

Here's a video of the 2-10-2. If you listen carefully as the loco passes, you can hear what sounds like a squeaking or "wheezing" sound. I still don't know what's causing that. Everything is well-lubricated on the inside.

IMG_3664

I haven't run the 4-8-4 much, but so far it has seemed fine. Honestly, I didn't need it, nor does it fit my model era, but I had a credit to burn at an online store and it was on sale, so I splurged. Here's a video of an early test run:

IMG_4916

BTW, I don't generally run smoke, so I can't tell you long-term how any of the smoke units work on these. As you've mentioned, there aren't really many manufacturers that offer smoke and sound steam locos in HO. I've never really considered anything from Bachmann, as I'm biased based on my perception from years ago of lesser quality. Someday I may be able to tell you about an Intermountain steam locomotive, if they ever end up making that cab forward I pre-ordered about three years ago. :rolleyes:

But I do have one other steam locomotive, a Walthers Proto 2000 CB&Q 0-8-0. Sound and DCC, but no smoke. It looks nice (actually has real chains hanging from the tender frame), runs great, and has decent sound. But unfortunately, I don't think they make steam locomotives any more.

42325951650_09c22ae419_o.jpg
 
Looks like I'll continue purchasing all my locos from BLI. I have a couple of Bachmanns and there's no comparison at all.

Other than these 2, I've added dcc and sound to the old die-cast Mantua steam engines and was very happy with it.

Not as much detail but it was heavy and ran like a champ after dialing in the Tsunami and adding pickups to the tender. I think those will continue to be my best bargains in steam.
 
Speaking of steam engines, I was just looking at the Big-Boys and their minimum track radius. 15", really? That was a Riverossi on the Hornby site. BLI's version states 18" minimum. I have 21 and 24 so should be able to run one of these. That's good to know if I ever hit the lottery.
 
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Hutch said:
Speaking of steam engines, I was just looking at the Big-Boys and their minimum track radius. 15", really? That was a Riverossi on the Hornby site. BLI's version states 18" minimum. I have 21 and 24 so should be able to run one of these. That's good to know if I ever hit the lottery.
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The European typical layout is in an attic since many/most homes are in 150+ year old buildings. Space is at a premium in those homes, often with two generations living in them. Not typically, but often enough that anyone wanting to play with trains has to arm wrestle for 80-150 square feet of space. That means tight curves are almost a given. So, Trix and Rivarossi, for two, do make their steamers capable of very tight curves.
 
D&J RailRoad said:
150+ years old? How did they escape destruction through two major wars?
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"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few", Winston Churchill

Brilliant strategies, and superhuman efforts in execution.
Radar, great pilots, and these magnificent machines!

1685731497258.png

1685731535505.png

Herman Goering's blunders helped.

These did not do much damage, thank God!
1685732185336.png
 
About the 4-8-4, who is the maker? I don't need smoke and does it run on straight dc?
His Servant and yours,
Lester
 
@Smudge617

I think most of what has been suggested is reasonable; although, I don't think you can go past BLI when it comes to Steam Trains, in any scale. While I love (and run) steam engines (BLI and Kato) I don't worry about having actual Steam, mainly due to to the smell and the "oily residue" some claim it leaves. If that is right, then sounds like a realisti9c steamer to me :) I can't speak for the other brands as I have not had any experience with them.

My only real recommendation is to stay well WELL away from bachmann, model power etc - the cheap rubbish basically. Someone said they have a 7 - 10% dud rate across the board - well, I can tell you without fear of contradiction that 100% of the bachmann and model power steamers I have had (HO and N) have failed and failed within a week of being out of the box.
 
Bruette said:
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few", Winston Churchill

Brilliant strategies, and superhuman efforts in execution.
Radar, great pilots, and these magnificent machines!
Click to expand...
Very true, fortunately the RAF also over estimated the number of fighter aircraft the Luftwaffe had in service at the time. British High Command believed the Luftwaffe used a similar system as the RAF, that being 12 aircraft comprised a squadron, in reality a Luftwaffe squadron at the time consisted of only 9 aircraft, but overall at the time of the Battle of Britain the total number of German aircraft far exceeded Britain's by a factor of 5 to 1.
RAF had 749 aircraft.
Luftwaffe had 2550.

But you are quite correct, had it not been for Radar, the Spitfire's and Hurricane's, and the pilots from all over the world who flew them, plus Dowding's system, German, would likely be my first language, not my second.
 
Smudge617 said:
But you are quite correct, had it not been for Radar, the Spitfire's and Hurricane's, and the pilots from all over the world who flew them, plus Dowding's system, German, would likely be my first language, not my second.
Click to expand...
Add to that - German arrogance that resulted in an apathetic attitude toward the allies and their abilities and they were bound to fail. Just goes to show - they may have out numbered the RAF 5 - 1 but numbers mean nothing if they aren't competent or are arrogant and apathetic :)
 
wombat457 said:
@Smudge617

I think most of what has been suggested is reasonable; although, I don't think you can go past BLI when it comes to Steam Trains, in any scale. While I love (and run) steam engines (BLI and Kato) I don't worry about having actual Steam, mainly due to to the smell and the "oily residue" some claim it leaves. If that is right, then sounds like a realisti9c steamer to me :) I can't speak for the other brands as I have not had any experience with them.

My only real recommendation is to stay well WELL away from bachmann, model power etc - the cheap rubbish basically. Someone said they have a 7 - 10% dud rate across the board - well, I can tell you without fear of contradiction that 100% of the bachmann and model power steamers I have had (HO and N) have failed and failed within a week of being out of the box.
Click to expand...
Geesh Tony! Maybe you should close one eye and stand on your left foot/leg before buying anything. I have multiple Bachmann, Rivarossi, Genesis and older Model Power steamers with zero issues that still run. Of course, maintenance along the way when needed. The only problem with the Model Power is the pizza cutter wheels. That did not come into play on the last layout as I used code 100 rail. This one is gonna be code 83 for the most part so we will see.

Later
 
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