Best Quality HO Steam


Espeefan said:
Granted they are not as well put together as a KTM or later Samhongsa mechanism, but then, they cost about half of one of those. It would seem NAPM has not had the reliability issues that the WC has. I will agree with you that they are not the most user servicable models out there, but I'm afraid that is going to get more common as manufacturers try and hold costs down, use cheaper materials, and design models to be manufactured efficiently which sometimes leaves out repair. I'm sticking to my older brass and installing tsunamis though i would not rule out BLI if they made something I wanted (except a GS-4...plenty of those on hand!:D)
Click to expand...

Those Spectrums are the only non-brass I own except for two Bowsers & two MDC's. As you know every other loco I have is brass. Which are designed for user repair. The Spectrums are surprisingly easy to work on. NWSL can supply any combo of gears needed as the Spectrum axles are 3mm, unlike BLI's which vary between 4-5.5mm, depending on engine. Another reason not to buy one. What if they went OOB tomorrow? I seriously doubt that they would have the lifetime of my Akanes, or your Max Grays'.
 
Cjcrescent said:
The Spectrums are surprisingly easy to work on. .
Click to expand...

Carey,
:eek:What??:eek:

I recently had a motor fail on a Spectrum 2-8-0. Replacing it was the closest thing to Chinese algebra I have ever done. Bachmann diesels and the older "plus" line are easy. That 2-8-0 gave me fits! :(

I do, however, wholeheartedly agree with you on brass. Once you get past the scary part the first time, ( diassembly ) they are as easy to fix as lunch.:D
 
Cjcrescent said:
Those Spectrums are the only non-brass I own except for two Bowsers & two MDC's. As you know every other loco I have is brass. Which are designed for user repair. The Spectrums are surprisingly easy to work on. NWSL can supply any combo of gears needed as the Spectrum axles are 3mm, unlike BLI's which vary between 4-5.5mm, depending on engine. Another reason not to buy one. What if they went OOB tomorrow? I seriously doubt that they would have the lifetime of my Akanes, or your Max Grays'.
Click to expand...

Give NWSL some time and we'll probably see some parts. That's all that's stopping you, right? I've been into BLI steam, and it's no big deal to take apart, just no aftermarket parts if you need to fix anything. If NWSL sees a market, they'll jump on it. After all, we have 60 plus years of brass history and maybe 10 of BLI?. Give it time.

Speaking of older brass have you seen the dive in market prices? I picked up a nice Alco/Rok-Am SP Mike for $200.00 & change! The previous owner had dipped it in a bucket of paint. After I got it stripped it looked really good. I also picked up a nice S-10 0-6-0 to keep your old S-8 company!

BLI hasn't really made anything I need or want either, but I think they'll get better as they get older...like most manufacturers. :D There is a nice BLI J in a LHS up here that nobody seems interested in, this being Milwaukee Road/CNW country. Hmmmmm...;)
 
kbkchooch said:
Carey,
:eek:What??:eek:

I recently had a motor fail on a Spectrum 2-8-0. Replacing it was the closest thing to Chinese algebra I have ever done. Bachmann diesels and the older "plus" line are easy. That 2-8-0 gave me fits! :(
Click to expand...

Drop in replacement is with the standard Kato motor or with another spectrum motor. Frame comes apart into two pieces. Last one I replaced took less than an hour. Hardest part was the soldering.
 
ditto ...I replaced a motor in my spectrum mountain. I had to remove some metal from the fame halves, Kato motor went in, wired up and all was good. now it needs new gears on the drive axel...!!! never ending...
 
Espeefan said:
Give NWSL some time and we'll probably see some parts. That's all that's stopping you, right? I've been into BLI steam, and it's no big deal to take apart, just no aftermarket parts if you need to fix anything. If NWSL sees a market, they'll jump on it. After all, we have 60 plus years of brass history and maybe 10 of BLI?. Give it time.
Click to expand...

Talked recently with NWSL about that very same thing (again). At this time, they have no interest in producing gears for this size axle since it is a real odd size compared to most other makers, (3mm).

Espeefan said:
Speaking of older brass have you seen the dive in market prices? I picked up a nice Alco/Rok-Am SP Mike for $200.00 & change! The previous owner had dipped it in a bucket of paint. After I got it stripped it looked really good. I also picked up a nice S-10 0-6-0 to keep your old S-8 company!
Click to expand...

I've seen the drop. I'm just looking for a couple of pieces, the Westside SRR tractor, and I would kill for one of the new Precision Scale SRR Ls-2's, 2-8-8-2's. But I ain't got the almost two grand these new loco's are going for.

Espeefan said:
BLI hasn't really made anything I need or want either, but I think they'll get better as they get older...like most manufacturers. :D There is a nice BLI J in a LHS up here that nobody seems interested in, this being Milwaukee Road/CNW country. Hmmmmm...;)
Click to expand...

I'm really not sure about the "better" part. And if they don't start producing more of the locos they've promised, they certainly won't get much older.
 
Cjcrescent said:
Drop in replacement is with the standard Kato motor or with another spectrum motor. Frame comes apart into two pieces. Last one I replaced took less than an hour. Hardest part was the soldering.
Click to expand...

Naah, the MOTOR was easy, it was that #&!^@%%$#(#@%@!! drive belt that killed me!
Fingers are not what they used to be since the onset of diabetes, I rely more and more on forceps and tweezers. They grip better, but are about as numb and my fingers at times.
 
Karl, I feel with ya. My left hand is almost completely numb, except when I mash a finger with a hammer.

I still believe that Red Box Rivarossi's are the engines to beat. One day we must all get together and I'll have to prove it. I have no engines by any other manufacturers that can match them for power, detail, and dependability. The exception being some of the brass engines, of course.

Bob
 
Cjcrescent said:
Talked recently with NWSL about that very same thing (again). At this time, they have no interest in producing gears for this size axle since it is a real odd size compared to most other makers, (3mm).
Click to expand...

The models I have seen look an awful lot like 3 MM axles. Are they shouldered like some of the old Tenshodo models? Which models are we talking about?

Up here we're the exact opposite. Lots of BLI/Paragon, very few Spectrum, very very few BLI problems. Maybe there are too many 5 pound sledgehammers in certain peoples tool boxes down there (not yours ;)) but we do have those customers who keep us busy fixing their little self created disasters :eek:

Cjcrescent said:
I'm really not sure about the "better" part. And if they don't start producing more of the locos they've promised, they certainly won't get much older.
Click to expand...

Right now they're sure keeping the Pennsy modelers happy. The Q-4 4-4-6-4 has been announced, and they just announced a Baldwin Centipede today. Neither piece interests me but I know several guys who are gaga for them. BLI isn't going to make their living off of people like you and I anyway. We're a small minority who is not afraid to take things apart and expects to do our own work. There aren't many of us in the market anymore, certainly not enough to influence their marketing decisions. We also run our brass, which puts us even further in the minority. They are not targeting us. We just confuse them :D
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Espeefan said:
We also run our brass, which puts us even further in the minority. They are not targeting us. We just confuse them :D
Click to expand...

Brass was meant to be run, otherwise it's not model railroading. Its railroad themed metal sculpture collecting! :p

So what if you have to remotor, regear, add electrical contacts, paint, light. and basicly overhaul them! Aint that part of the fun??
 
kbkchooch said:
Brass was meant to be run, otherwise it's not model railroading. Its railroad themed metal sculpture collecting! :p

So what if you have to remotor, regear, add electrical contacts, paint, light. and basicly overhaul them! Aint that part of the fun??
Click to expand...

Well it certainly is for me, but there is no denying the large amount of collectors out there. I think that there are more of them than us operators. No problem with that, but when new models are considered, the manufacturers consider heavily what the collectors will buy.
 
I've got two IHC C&O heavy mountains that just run their heart out....just no problems. I had them weathered and they look great...some think they are brass from only a short distance away. I can run them double-headed without DCC. Of course the vandy tenders were wrong shape.

So I bought two Bachmann C&O versions with that great new vandy tender. I hope to put a real nice sound and dcc system in these and have a real nice pair as well. I have not run them to any great degree, so can't comment on this quality about them. (I'll take any good hints at speaker installations in these vandy tenders)

Originally my first BLI was the 2-6-6-4 ClassA. What a great sounding engine, even on just straight dc. But after awhile I noticed the driver wheel corrosion...sort of a zinc colored appearance of the rims of the drivers, and the discoloration of the running surfaces of these wheels. When the loco suddenly wouldn't run I assumed that this corrosion was not allowing electrical contact. I sent it back to the factory and was told they reset the decoder, and that the wheel discoloration would make no difference. Turns out to be true on this loco, the discoloration does not seem to effect the electrical pickup so far.

Since then I've bought a number of their Blueline diesels and steam locos, and I've run into this wheel corrosion problem with a vengeance on a few of the diesels. Check this other subject thread out:
http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=133533#post133533
http://www.broadway-limited2.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1452&sid=8099de4afa54b94f0cc4436a535bf039

I can't say this will or will not occur on the steam locos as they are still in their new boxes. The detail on these locos is great. I was disappointed to hear on this subject thread that they are more difficult to repair by one's self due to odd size axles, etc.

One final point, look at the condition of the driver wheels on that 'less expensive' IHC Mountain loco that has been running and running and setting on this layout for over 6 years...the compare it with the wheels on that 2-6-6-4 BLI. BTW I have a friend whose train shop just took one of these ClassA locos in trade and it has this same 'car battery terminal' look to it's drivers??

Suggestions?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Cjcrescent said:
Those Spectrums are the only non-brass I own except for two Bowsers & two MDC's. As you know every other loco I have is brass. Which are designed for user repair. The Spectrums are surprisingly easy to work on. NWSL can supply any combo of gears needed as the Spectrum axles are 3mm, unlike BLI's which vary between 4-5.5mm, depending on engine. Another reason not to buy one. What if they went OOB tomorrow? I seriously doubt that they would have the lifetime of my Akanes, or your Max Grays'.
Click to expand...

Probably not CJ, however, in talking with the Captain, he feels much of your problem is the constant running all day every day during your display season at MacWayne. Nobody has ever done any sort of study on the service life of any HO mechanisms that I know of, probably because in most cases it isn't an issue. You guys run the wheels off 'em. The Chattanooga Choo Choo layout also goes through plenty of locos as you know better than I. I would not run my Max Gray's or PFM's that way even though their mechanisms are superior to what is in BLI/PCM.

Of more concern is the wheel issue mentioned here. This decay of the wheel alloy is a major red flag. Shades of Central Valley trucks and the Zamac disease! I certainly won't consider one of these models until I see some sort of cause & resolution for this problem. Either these pieces were improperly stored in a very humid environment, there is a problem with the alloy used to make the wheels, or there was no/improper cleaning of plating solutions (it's acid after all) from the parts. Remember the corrosion on early Korean brass before the buggers learned to solder? I've painted several of those (Mike B's MS-4 was one). Lots of corrosion on the model itself right out of the box. Then the damn things were nearly re-kitted through the blasting & ultrasonic cleaning process. After painting, a few more parts fell off just to keep things interesting :mad::mad::mad:

Electircal pickup not effected by corroded wheels? Maybe not with all wheel pickup on the tenders. Nasty issue. I'll wait & see. Until then, I'm now in your camp. No BLI/PCM until I hear a reason and a solution for this.
 
Another reason I prefer the older Brass steamers, espicaly PFM/Tenshodo and PFM/United, those were just plain made to be run and run. Even with thier original open frame motors that usualy run nice with proper maintance. And your all very right, very few of us left in the hobby that are willing and able to dismantle and tune/maintain brass steam locomotives or even some of the new plastic ones. I have had the unpleasure of working on some of the newer plastic stuff, give me a brass one anyday. A few micro flat head or phillips head screws and the boiler/superstructure lifts off the chassis. Brass is still the only way to go for logging geared engines. I had a Bachmann shay and quickly sold it off, no comparison to my old PFM/United models. Might be easier to put sound/dcc in it, but didnt care for the drive train whine or ubber high motor rpm to get the shay up to a decent top speed (for a shay that is). Cheers Mike T
 
Espeefan said:
Probably not CJ, ...You guys run the wheels off 'em. The Chattanooga Choo Choo layout also goes through plenty of locos as you know better than I. I would not run my Max Gray's or PFM's that way even though their mechanisms are superior to what is in BLI/PCM.
Click to expand...

Alan;

When I lived in Mobile, our club down there did 14 day runs at the Fair. We had to have trains running from 12PM (noon) until 9PM, every day but Sat and Sun where we ran 12hr shifts. Even though there were no can motors in any of the steamers we ran at the time, my brass, with Pittman motors ran almost the whole time without any breakdowns or maintenance. I burned out some older PFM motors the first year, but replaced them with Pittmans and never had the problem again. I have always said the weakest part of a mech is its motor, and these experiences at the fair in Mobile and at McVane here seems to prove it. If you have a solid mech with a great motor, you won't have problems with a public display.
 
I would tend agree with all of you about BLI,seeing as I have one. But of all the steam that I have,I like my Tenshodo 4-4-2,as well my four Bachmann's,and the one Proto 2000,and one Bowser Mike, it would seem as though Bachmann really is the better choice. But all this talk of corrosion on Locomotive Drivers,has me wondering,will I see any corrosion on my BLI L&N Mike? Also now that Bowser has gotten out of Steam Locos, there doesn't seem to be too many other choices,but I may be wrong. Any way,that my one and half cent opinion.
 
Cjcrescent said:
Alan;

When I lived in Mobile, our club down there did 14 day runs at the Fair. We had to have trains running from 12PM (noon) until 9PM, every day but Sat and Sun where we ran 12hr shifts. Even though there were no can motors in any of the steamers we ran at the time, my brass, with Pittman motors ran almost the whole time without any breakdowns or maintenance. I burned out some older PFM motors the first year, but replaced them with Pittmans and never had the problem again. I have always said the weakest part of a mech is its motor, and these experiences at the fair in Mobile and at McVane here seems to prove it. If you have a solid mech with a great motor, you won't have problems with a public display.
Click to expand...

True enough, but two weeks is about 20% of the length of your season at Macwayne, right? Doesn't it run from November to sometime after New Year... a week or two maybe? I think anything put through that kind of duty cycle will show wear somehow, and we've gotten from BLI on to Brass. Handbuilt versus mass produced mechanisms made with cheaper materials. Not really an "apples to apples" comparison. BLI is off my list until I hear something about the driver/wheel situation. If they come up with a valid explanation for it, fix it, and then make something I actually want, maybe I'll consider one. Not until then though
 
My BLI engines or older, about 7-9 years old, I'd guess. The wheels are fine. Are we seeing Zamac? Is that the problem?

Bob
 
You must log in or register to reply here.



Back
Top