Back after many years, first question.


Bill Lewis

New Member
Decided to get back into the Hobby and decided to build the Valley Forge Central in HO. I tried drawing a lot of my own plans but took the easy way out with the typical 4 X 8 table. I like this plan because it gives you two levels and two types of operation.

I started construction on the table but my question is I want to paint the whole thing, legs and all one color to use a s a base.
any suggestion on a good base color ? I hopefully will be adding scenic grass, etc. later on but just wna tot start with a clean slate

Thanks in advance for your input :cool:

Bill in SC
 
I guess wood tone wouldn't work, huh?

Maybe I just wasn't clear . What I'm
asking is what would blend well with some Woodland Scenics grass etc. I was thinking of a dark green because I'm afraid of a,brown showing thru too much .
Sorry if it seems like a silly question but I have very little experience with scenery.
 
Actually a brown or dark tan would look better. The 1:1 scale world is not covered in green. There are plenty of bare patches showing through. When you paint your layout, only do a small section at a time, and put the ground cover right on the paint before it dries. The wet paint will help hold the ground cover in place.
 
Actually a brown or dark tan would look better. The 1:1 scale world is not covered in green. There are plenty of bare patches showing through. When you paint your layout, only do a small section at a time, and put the ground cover right on the paint before it dries. The wet paint will help hold the ground cover in place.

Thanks for the input, enjoy your insanity :p
 
Hi Bill,

I used a couple different shades of green. I put them in a bowl and slightly mixed to get a variety of shades and spread on with a brush.

For the roads, I used brown and sometimes sifted the natural dirt right over the wet paint to get some gravel texture. Of coarse, there are more elaborate techniques available on youtube, depending on how much time you want to spend initially.

hope this helps
 
Hi Bill,

I used a couple different shades of green. I put them in a bowl and slightly mixed to get a variety of shades and spread on with a brush.

For the roads, I used brown and sometimes sifted the natural dirt right over the wet paint to get some gravel texture. Of coarse, there are more elaborate techniques available on youtube, depending on how much time you want to spend initially.

hope this helps

Thanks

last night I happened upon a Nat Geographic flyover of New Zealand (Now you know there really was nothing on TV. LOL ) Admiring the high def shots from a plane flying over the landscape everything appeared different shades,of green as you suggested.
I think I'll go that way and fill in the dirt and other areas with landscape materials
Thanks again
 
I always paint my locations with one shade of brown or another, as if the ground cover gets removed, that's what color the dirt is. For an n-scale layout set out in the west, once, I used several shades or orange, also, as it was set more in a desert locale. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Last thing, I usually go around to places that sell paint, looking for stuff that people brought back, as it keeps the cost down, if I can find a color I like.
 
Thanks for advice

I always paint my locations with one shade of brown or another, as if the ground cover gets removed, that's what color the dirt is. For an n-scale layout set out in the west, once, I used several shades or orange, also, as it was set more in a desert locale. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Last thing, I usually go around to places that sell paint, looking for stuff that people brought back, as it keeps the cost down, if I can find a color I like.

Thanks for the advice. I have some leftover wall paint in a light brown color I will be using. Plan has changed from 4 x 8 to long shelf !
 
My parents house used to be brown, when I got into this hobby, and they had paint left over, which was great for my budget at the time. Paint serves several purposes-one is for the visual effect, the other is to 'seal' the wood, so light brown could be a good primer if nothing else.
 
My parents house used to be brown, when I got into this hobby, and they had paint left over, which was great for my budget at the time. Paint serves several purposes-one is for the visual effect, the other is to 'seal' the wood, so light brown could be a good primer if nothing else.


Thanks. now that I settles that I'm retinking my layout shape. I was goong for simple and the 4 X 8 starter board but I have a15' long room so may take advantage of the length.
I really want to run a PRR T1 someday so need some more roo,. I just think that loco is special
Thanks
Bill
 
If you can use the entire room, an around the walls layout would give you the opportunity to use broader radius curves.
 
Even being able to move up to 5x10 will give you more options, and like Flyboy said, give you larger curves, which a T-1 could use. For a while, I had about a 10x15' space, and the layout I had was very nice-things ran, and ran well. Even had some signals.

Good luck!
 
OK table completed and I did go with brown for the paint
More questions: I'm freelancing this layout on my 39" X 11' table and about to order track and switches. It's going to be 18" radius curves for space and mostly switching with a loop,runaround and possibly a second level.
I'm going with Atlas code 83. Deciding on switches the #4s I was thing of require I buy a motor and a controller. If I go with Snap Switches everything is included and a lot cheaper. Any thoughts appreciated
I'm also planning on going DCC but I'm thinking of a reverse,loop in the plan. Is that difficult to wire ?
Thanks in advance for all the help here
Bill in SC
 
You have the room, a reverse loop may not be needed, they are tricky. That much room you can "stack" your corners with curves, 24", 22", 18", 15" will fit quite nicely and it looks COOL!

Check the "mistakes" area of the big box store paint section! Mrs Fussbudgets inability to pick a color has gotten me some good paint for cheap. Go for the FLAT tones. GLOSS can be used to simulate a "wet" look if you want it, if not, it's hard to cover the shine and still get the benefit of the color.
 
Bill,

I doubt a T-1 that's available today, like BLI's, would negotiate 18" radii curves; don't know about the old Bowser versions, however. If you can make your table 48-54" wide, you could use 24" radius curves, which today's more prototypically sized locomotives and cars need to operate successfully. A lot of people claim today that anything less than 30" radius curves result in poor operations. If you have the room, I'd seriously consider going larger than 39" assuming you're talking HO. Not sure you can find hollow core doors wider than 39", if that's your idea, however building a 'table' isn't too difficult, with some plywood, and 1x4s. Some people even skip the plywood, and use foam insulation that you can find at most lumber yards, etc. Its usually the pink or blue stuff, not the white styrafoam that makes a mess everywhere. I'll leave it to others to provide insights on the advantages and disadvantages of foam vs plywood.

while the Atlas snap switches are cheaper, as they include the switch, + machine, etc, they are also amongst the tightest in terms of the curved part of the turnout. If you want to plan to operate something like a T-1, I'd seriously consider going with #6 or #8s, particularly if you want to operate thru the crossover at speed. I mainly used #4s (which is actually a #4.5, if you go with Atlas) for industries and such, not on the main line for passing sidings, or cross overs.

While I'm still analog DC at the moment, I believe there are at least one or two companies that make some sort of DCC reversing unit that you can wire to the reversing section, that takes some of the wiring headaches out of that section of track. Reverse loops in analog DC aren't really that complicated to wire, if you pick up say an old Atlas wiring book, which has a lot of diagrams.

Will the lower and upper levels of the mainline(s) be connected? Or separate loops? While some will say that anything over a 2% grade is not prototypical except for anything other than lumber company trackage with say Shay locomotives and alike, if you go much over 4% in HO, you will need to be operating very short trains. Woodland Scenics make styrafoam grade sets in 2, 3, and 4% gradients, which I believe create 4" of separation. You can combine them to get steeper grades if you want, but even with the 4% grade, you need a run of like 120" or about 10 feet, if I remember right. I've used these in the past, successfully, but have no affiliation with Woodland Scenics. Just throwing out different ideas that might come in handy now or down the road. Kalmbach had a book or two years ago on layout construction techniques that you may want to get a hold of, if you can't find anything on google.

FWIW, people always love to see photos of layouts, etc.

Good luck, and keep us posted,
Carl
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Bill,

I doubt a T-1 that's available today, like BLI's, would negotiate 18" radii curves; don't know about the old Bowser versions, however. If you can make your table 48-54" wide, you could use 24" radius curves, which today's more prototypically sized locomotives and cars need to operate successfully. A lot of people claim today that anything less than 30" radius curves result in poor operations. If you have the room, I'd seriously consider going larger than 39" assuming you're talking HO. Not sure you can find hollow core doors wider than 39", if that's your idea, however building a 'table' isn't too difficult, with some plywood, and 1x4s. Some people even skip the plywood, and use foam insulation that you can find at most lumber yards, etc. Its usually the pink or blue stuff, not the white styrafoam that makes a mess everywhere. I'll leave it to others to provide insights on the advantages and disadvantages of foam vs plywood.

while the Atlas snap switches are cheaper, as they include the switch, + machine, etc, they are also amongst the tightest in terms of the curved part of the turnout. If you want to plan to operate something like a T-1, I'd seriously consider going with #6 or #8s, particularly if you want to operate thru the crossover at speed. I mainly used #4s (which is actually a #4.5, if you go with Atlas) for industries and such, not on the main line for passing sidings, or cross overs.

While I'm still analog DC at the moment, I believe there are at least one or two companies that make some sort of DCC reversing unit that you can wire to the reversing section, that takes some of the wiring headaches out of that section of track. Reverse loops in analog DC aren't really that complicated to wire, if you pick up say an old Atlas wiring book, which has a lot of diagrams.

Will the lower and upper levels of the mainline(s) be connected? Or separate loops? While some will say that anything over a 2% grade is not prototypical except for anything other than lumber company trackage with say Shay locomotives and alike, if you go much over 4% in HO, you will need to be operating very short trains. Woodland Scenics make styrafoam grade sets in 2, 3, and 4% gradients, which I believe create 4" of separation. You can combine them to get steeper grades if you want, but even with the 4% grade, you need a run of like 120" or about 10 feet, if I remember right. I've used these in the past, successfully, but have no affiliation with Woodland Scenics. Just throwing out different ideas that might come in handy now or down the road. Kalmbach had a book or two years ago on layout construction techniques that you may want to get a hold of, if you can't find anything on google.

FWIW, people always love to see photos of layouts, etc.

Good luck, and keep us posted,


Thanks for the repy. I should of updated a few points. The T1 is just not going to work for me no matter how much I love that engine. Around the room layout also won't work because of the wide entrance at one end and because I don't want to attach anything to the walls. Wife keep talking about moving Yeeeecch !
I'm thinking 4 axle desiels and maybe a 060 or 080 Steamer. I realize the #4 switches look more prototypical but I'm not that fussy at this point. First layout in many years. I originally wanted to do the Valley Forge Central which has a 4% grade to a second level and actually built a 4 X 8 table for it. After finishing it I just thought the width would eat up too much of the room which is also my music studio. I decided to go with the 18" curves. I'm not too happy with that but compromises arise.
Carl

Any help and advice is welcomed, thanks again.
 
I'm going with Atlas code 83. Deciding on switches the #4s I was thing of require I buy a motor and a controller. If I go with Snap Switches everything is included and a lot cheaper. Any thoughts appreciated
Snap Switches are much tighter than an #4. In fact, in Atlas brand the custom-line #4 turnouts are closer to #5s, while the Snap-switches are really close to being #3s. Unless you are going to stick with really short equipment and locos, I would recommend using the #4s except maybe in industrial areas.

I'm also planning on going DCC but I'm thinking of a reverse,loop in the plan. Is that difficult to wire ?
No, four gaps or insulated rail joiners, one extra set of feeder wires and an automatic reversing unit and everything is good.
 



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