Atlas High Nose N&W U30B Review


el3637

Member
Of all the predictions I could have made for the hobby 10 years ago, I never would have dreamed that today I'd be holding in my hand a factory painted, ready to run high nose U30B in N&W 13-dip black.

With a total of 110 units, N&W had more U30Bs than anybody else. All were high nose, and they were in two major groups. The first group was numbered 1930-1965 built in 1967. The second major group was numbered 8465-8539 and delivered in 1970-71. I say major groups because each has sub-phase details within, but they have very different body styles from each other. The 1967 built units resemble the earlier U28B substantially, although they are not identical - the radiator section has visible differences. Proto 2000 has produced an excellent version of this shell, albeit in low nose form only and with a weird drive. But the subject of this review is the new Atlas model which represents the later class, specifically the final order #8525-8539 delivered in September through November of 1971 and came from the factory in N&W's then-new 13-dip scheme.

The Atlas U30B is an evolution of their older U23B model, but it has a number of major improvements. The trucks are the new, upgraded AAR-B trucks first seen on the Alco C420 last year, and make a big difference with separate brake cylinders. The drive is also upgraded to current Atlas configuration, with smaller flywheels and the vertical 2-speaker housing for sound systems. My sample is the Silver Series DCC-ready version, so the speaker housings contain a couple of flat cast metal weights, which add to the model's heft and can be easily swapped out for a DIY sound installation. The operating performance is exactly what you've come to expect from Atlas - very consistent performance, smooth running and starting, and most importantly - it runs just like your other Atlas diesels instead of some pie-in-the-sky gear ratio of the month or electronic speed governor or B-bus undervolt eliminator. Houston, there's no problem under the hood and while we sometimes take that for granted, Atlas should be commended for sticking with the proven winner. The lighting is provided by LEDs, and the circuit board is equipped with an NMRA type 8-pin socket. I should also mention that the location of pin 1 is *clearly* indicated by a triangle that is embedded in the board. When a plug can be inserted more than one way, an indicator is essential and all too often missing from these plug & play boards. FYI, the orange wire on your NMRA plug goes into the pin with the triangle.

My preference for Atlas locos is to use an NCE decoder, but I was surprised to discover I had none of them left that I could plug in to the 8-pin socket. So I stuck a TCS T1P decoder in place for the time being. I am happy to report that after programming the decoder, it works perfectly as do both the front and rear LED lights - no smoke was released and no circuit boards were harmed in the process. It is still my intent to replace the decoder and circuit board with an NCE DASR and incandescent bulbs, but for the purpose of evaluating the factory setup, I wanted to keep it intact. It passes! Also, this might catch you a bit by surprise but - Atlas has wired up the N&W U30B with the long hood designated as front. This is correct for N&W practice, so if you install your decoder and going FWD means you are long hood leading, the trouble is not in your set - that's how it's supposed to be. However, I designate all of my locos as short hood front - that is my universal practice regardless of roadname, so that neither I nor a visitor needs to ask, look up, or trial and error any particular loco to see which end is front. Also - even though I primarily model N&W - I model the western, former NKP territory where short hood forward operation was the norm, and many of the lead units were ex-NKP and ex-WAB power that were SHF by design anyway. The U30Bs never seemed to popular with the N&W guys in Virginia and coal territory, and they seemed to have been mostly dispatched west. In the mid 1970s, there were lots and lots of U30Bs (plus the U28Bs) visible in and around Chicago.

My U30B came with the usual Accumate couplers, easily replaced with Kadee #58. Again, stuff we take for granted like Kadee drop-in capability is something being meddled with by other manufacturers... in particular the other one that starts with an A.... so I think it's worth a mention that Atlas is still doing the next best thing to including real Kadees: they aren't creating any obstacles to Kadees.

Now to the nitty gritty - the U30B shell itself. I had an opportunity to review the drawings and caught a couple of minor issues, most of which Atlas was already aware of. These corrections all made it to the final product, and the result is arguably the most accurate model of an N&W diesel to date. The U30B is neck and neck with the Proto high nose N&W GP30 in that department. The phase details, the high nose, even stepwell gussets and some of the minor hatch detail around the radiator is spot on. The radiators are not "see through" but on this phase of U-boat, they should not be. I generally prefer solid moldings for things that appear solid on the prototype at any normal viewing distance, and this is the case with the GE vertical corrugated radiator screens of the era.

When it comes to prototype-specific details, I never expect a manufacturer to provide every single bolt, cable, and pipe. It's just not practical. All I ask is that what is there be correct, or easily removed. There is room for underbody detailing of course - but what is there is correct. Ditto for the body, up to and including the unique N&W U-boat bell bracket. Up until now no one has made this part. Previous models, including a U30B I kitbashed from earlier Atlas U-boat components, I had to approximate this bell by modifying other parts. When I did three of the early U-boats (two U28Bs and a U30B) from the Proto shells, I just left the bells off hoping that a correct part would eventually come along. My patience has been rewarded, and I hope Atlas will have this part available in quantity from their parts department shortly. I need 4 of them right now just to apply or replace on finished models, and could use at least 6 more for planned future projects. When the first test shot photos were posted in the Atlas forum some time ago, there was some criticism of the bell shape - it looked too long, vertically. Atlas has corrected this, at least mostly - it's difficult to tell comparing to prototype photos. I am satisfied with it at present, but because the bell and bracket are separate pieces, one can easily replace just the bell portion with the bell of their choice. The bracket, the key unique element is dead on.

The high nose itself is another unique spotting feature. If you're not an N&W or Southern fan, you may not be aware that there are a total of four different high noses that were used on GE locomotives... 5 if you count the XP24 demonstrator. The high nose used on UP and Frisco U25Bs was unique to that model, having a sloped end and protruding number boards similar to the long hood end of the U25B. The N&W U28Bs and U30Bs, as well as the Southern U30Cs, U33Cs, and U23Bs used the classic U-boat high nose, as represented by the Hi-Tech details kit. Atlas has correctly captured the shape of this nose, which has some subtle contours as well as a beveled notch on the left side to permit the cab door to open. I haven't compared it directly to the Hi-Tech nose, but I think it will be virtually identical except for having open number boards. There are two other types of high noses for GE locomotives. First is the B30-7A type nose, which was used only on that model. It was used on all of the cabless BN B30-7A/7A1 locos and features an inverted number board casing, with the number boards in the upper half of the headlight area. For some reason, this same nose was also used on the Southern B30-7A1, which had full cabs and high noses, apparently because that was what they had around. This nose is/was available from Smokey Valley. Lastly, is the high nose used on the Southern B23-7s and B36-7s. It resembles the B30-7A nose but the number boards are in the lower half of the headlight area. Atlas has done this nose on their Southern and NS B23-7, and while it's correct in configuration the countours are a bit flat. Anyway, back on the topic, the U30B's high nose seems to be right on.
(continued)
 
The Atlas model comes with a generic 3-chime horn, but it's in the correct location. No holes to fill, it's easy to replace it with a Utah Pacific brass Leslie S5T.

As far as paint and lettering goes, it's hard to screw up black, right? Wrong! Manufacturers are notoriously careless with simple paint schemes sometimes, and sometimes black isn't even black (BLI hoppers anyone?). The N&W 13-dip scheme is so simple and bland, one hopes they didn't pay their agency more than a couple bucks for the design. But even though it is simple and sparse, it still has a specific font, size, spacing, and other characteristics. Characteristics that are very often completely wrong on factory models. Atlas has in the past gotten it right (SD35) and wrong (U30C). Proto nailed it on their GP30. Atlas has nailed it on their U30B. Comparing my #8537 to photos of the real 8537, even the safety stickers are there, and in the right place. A prototype photo, and some discriminating eyes to look at it, go a long way toward getting a model right!

About the only thing that detracts from the appearance of the model as being totally right is the lack of the N&W's trademark all-weather cab windows. The silver frames of the windows seem to call attention to that fact. But as I said, if everything can't be perfect all I ask is for no obstacles to fixing it. Most of my photos of U30Bs, they are lead units running in July... back then there was no cab A/C. The all-weather windows are literally wide open, with the glass panes not slid open to one side, but completely removed. I've been questioned on this at RPM meets many times, but - I got the photos to prove it! It does however expose your cab interior or lack thereof, so that's something to think about. Modeling the cab windows and crew are the one aspect that I end up inadvertently designating a loco as a lead or trailing unit. I really don't want this restriction. My mantra is N&W's observed policy on the western lines, which was any loco, any train, any direction, any combination, any quantity, any time. So I just don't worry about it... yeah, you might find my U30B with its wide open windows and crew in place trailing someday, while a closed-up, unmanned unit leads. At least with DCC and the right setup, I can create the consist to run it that way, and have functioning headlights where I need them.

The Atlas model's headlight and number board are lit by the same LED, which makes the number boards too bright. Lit number boards are really only visible at night or on a very dreary overcast day, so I prefer to not light them at all rather than going to the trouble and expense of wiring them up independently of the headlight. So my U-boat will get 1.5 bulbs and resistors in the headlight holes, and baffles to block most of the light and keep it out of the number boards.

Additional details I plan to add to my U30B: Details West wheelslip pickups - U-boats of this vintage have the wheelslip system and all four journals on the left (SHF) side of the loco have these cone-shaped contraptions and cables attached. DW recently made this part available and it really makes a difference. The handbrake chain on the right side, air filter/dryer and other underframe basics are easily added. One advantage I've found to buying a decorated model even if I plan to strip and repaint it, is that the delrin handrails come prepainted with the yellow ends. Atlas has figured out how to do this and theirs look better than what I can do myself, so whenever possible I try to use the prepainted rails. At least until such time as all-metal, scale size stanchions become available for all the prototypes!

I should also mention that the pilot steps are the earlier design, solid smooth steps which are the correct dimension instead of the abbreviated but see-thru steps that Atlas and Proto have used on numerous locos. I prefer the solid steps because they are dimensionally correct, and easily replaced or overlayed with etched steps. The shallow steps are much more difficult to replace because the pilot end gusset is notched in the profile of the shallow steps, and there are no ready guidlines for mounting the replacements. I believe Brian Banna has offered etched steps for the U23B, which should fit the U30B nicely.

My review has been strictly on the N&W high nose, in terms of analyzing the prototype fidelity, paint and lettering, details, etc. So I'll leave it to someone else to comment on the other road names. If I had to choose between the Proto 2000 GP30 high nose and the Atlas U30B high nose to pick a "best model of an N&W diesel from the factory", it's a virtual toss-up. The minor modifications to completely trick out the model are nearly identical. The improved P2K drive has so far meant no repowering, but I'd give the edge to Atlas for sticking with the proven. Also advantage Atlas on the pilot steps. So I guess I won't really try to pick a winner, but suffice it to say my railroad will end up with several of each in factory get-up with the changes I've mentioned, weathering, etc. I will not designate them Superfleet because I reserve that only for locos I painted myself (at least), but I have some undec U30Bs coming, and the GP30s as well that will become Superfleet. I'm still a builder, but I can honestly say that the Atlas U30B is a fine and accurate enough model that I'm quite satisfied with it as it comes, with just a couple tweaks. I can't find a single thing wrong with the body or details, other than the cab window and horn already mentioned. If I have any complaint at all, it's just the sticker shock of a $180 list price for a Silver Series. But what can ya do, that's pretty much happening to everything right now. While the U30B isn't a totally new tool a la the C420, it's a lot more than a warmed-over rerun of the U23B with different hood doors. In fact, it's a better model than the U23B in every way and I would assume the next run of U23Bs will incorporate many of the improvements.

I have some photos of the loco in original form, after my minor mods and decoder install, and I'll take more after I've added the wheelslip cones and changed out the lighting. I just need to get them edited and posted, but it probably won't happen until after the weekend since I'm getting married Saturday!

I'd like to thank Atlas for asking me to review the drawings and for the review sample loco - I don't get that particular perk very often, so I think it's important to acknowledge it. And I'm quite certain Rob knew who he was dealing with when he first brought up the subject, that I wasn't going to be giving it a free ride or anything... I don't claim to be unbiased, but I do try to explain my biases. I don't make a big deal about the generic horn, where as some guys might flat refuse to buy a model because of something like that. And so on. I think non-N&W modelers who would like an N&W locomotive from the 1970s as a run-through or "guest star" on their railroad will find the Atlas U30B an extremely safe bet that even the most hard core N&W nitpicker won't find fault with. And I think the hard core N&W nitpickers will be suitably impressed. I was.

Andy
 
Ok, here we go - these are not the most recent after I added the all-weather window but they will have to do for now.

Right out of the box, minutes after I received it and opened up my UPS package on July 3:
u30b-01.jpg

u30b-02.jpg

u30b-03.jpg


Chassis shows new style drive with the small rear FW, speaker housing, and LEDs.
u30b-04.jpg


I took this close-up to show the locator triangle on the circuit board, and just now noticed that the pins on the dummy plug are individually numbered!
u30b-05.jpg


The bell and the firecracker antenna are in a separate envelope in the box - don't lose them, they are very small! I proceded to lose the firecracker right off the bat so I wound up using my old standby Details West brass firecracker.
u30b-06.jpg


Close-up of the solid steps, and pilot details - this is the long hood end, with the correct 'F' designation.
u30b-07.jpg


This is how the crew is positioned, facing the long end. I reversed them for SHF operation, since they'd be very visible through the open windows. Bell is now in place.
u30b-08.jpg


I have removed the center bar of the window, and the generic horn - enlarged the hole a little for the Utah Pacific horn. Also the end railings are now in place.
u30b-09.jpg


More later...

Andy
 
More pics showing the all weather cab and the DW wheelslip system:

u30b-10.jpg

u30b-11.jpg

u30b-12.jpg

u30b-13.jpg

u30b-14.jpg

u30b-15.jpg


The later U30Bs have the wheelslip pickups only on the front truck, on the left side. They have a single speed recorder pickup on the left side forward axle. It's a weird shaped thing, not like any available part I've seen - it's cone shaped like the wheelslip pickups, but lacks the flat protruding plate on the front, it just comes to a blunt point where the cable connects. You can see how I modified one of the wheelslip cones to sort of look like the speed recorder.

I also found a really blatant thing I totally missed.

Looky at this photo:
nw8537ckg.jpg

compare to this:
u30b-11.jpg


Notice position of first three stanchions and railing.

All of the later N&W units have this extra box on the long hood, left side, which relocates one stanchion and the step-up in the rail. I completely missed it in the drawing review... and on the model until now. I only noticed it when I was trying to see where to place the ACI label.

I have no idea what it is.... easy enough to model the box, but kind of hard to rework delrin railings.

Andy
 
Repositioning the crew may have been an error. NW, for many years, ran long cab forward. You may want to check your data to see if this was the case.

Bob
 
No doubt that the N&W ran them long hood forward, as shown by the "F" on the long hood frame in the prototype photo and on the model. That box is a battery and equipment box that N&W used for the advanced wheelslip system. An oversight for sure but I think the N&W was the only railroad to mount these boxes. Very detailed review. Atlas sure looks like they've produced a winner with this one.
 
Repositioning the crew may have been an error. NW, for many years, ran long cab forward. You may want to check your data to see if this was the case.

How many photos would you like to see? Did you even read what I wrote?

N&W ran both ways. Their locomotives were dual control. They ran short hood forward on the NKP lines far more often than they ran long hood forward. In fact, in my collection I have only one photo of a U30B leading LHF, and probably 15 or more leading SHF.

Andy
 
Man, that is one HIDEOUS locomotive.

Yet it looks so great.

I've always maintained that the plane jane locomotives can be the most difficult to model, because you can't cheat - there's no pizazz, no silver trucks or glitzy schemes. Not even a mars light or gyra or strobe. You have to make it work with workmanship, accuracy, finishing - and weathering.

I've always thought U-boats were boring locomotives. High noses are the only thing that really make them stand out :)

Andy
 
That box is a battery and equipment box that N&W used for the advanced wheelslip system. An oversight for sure but I think the N&W was the only railroad to mount these boxes. Very detailed review. Atlas sure looks like they've produced a winner with this one.

Interesting... I believe all U30Bs had the wheelslip system, but only N&W had this box. This phase of U30B only has the wheelslip cones on the short-end truck. The earlier 1900s had them on all for axles, all on the left side. Up until I got the parts out of the bag last night and started looking at photos, I firmly believed that the later ones had them on all 4 axles too. I flipped through my Withers & Bowers book as well as the fallenflags photos, and -- well, they don't.

Observation skills need to be exercised regularly, and mine haven't been obviously. I've been trying to get somewhere with freight cars, but not doing so well there either.

Andy
 
Andy, I think that model was testing a computer measured wheelslip for just one truck and having the computer use an algorithm to adjust traction on all trucks. Apparently, the GE engineers figured out that wheelslip on one truck was about the same as all trucks there was no need for sensors on all trucks. I don't know if that idea worked out in real life or even how long those U30B's kept the box.

The only N&W units I saw running were all in the South and 90% of them ran long hood first, even when they started buying low noses. NS units still tend to run long hood first unless they are a switch job and need to have engine face short hood first for car spotting. Maybe the guys running on the ex-NKP lines were all NKP engineers and were used to short hood first running. The subject why the NS/N&W/Southern ran long hood first has been discussed ad infinitum and I've still never read a plausible reason for it.
 
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Great looking Locomotive. I am very happy with my Altas Silver series locos. The one thing that I dont understand is thier MSRP's between locos. For example you can get a N&W SD35 Silver for $134.95 and yet the U30B's in Silver list for $179.95. Both model are very detailed but that is a considerable price spread for the same Silver level loco.

SD35
View attachment 14410
U30B
View attachment 14411
 
Oh and while everyone is on the topic of N&W, is there an exact match paint out their for Norfolk and Western either in Poly Scale or Floquil or another brand for that matter?
 
I think engine black is about as close as you need to get. There are only so many shades of black. :)
 
Repositioning the crew may have been an error. NW, for many years, ran long cab forward. You may want to check your data to see if this was the case.

Here is some data:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/archiveThumbs.aspx?id=17100

Lots of N&W locos running short hood forward. A handful running long hood forward.

U30B running long hood forward:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1462989
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1478579

U30B running short hood forward:
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1463306
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=527622
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=1578353

Note these pictures are all on the west end - Marion, Fostoria, Bellevue. More likely to see U30Bs or any N&W dual control locos running LHF east of Portsmouth, way less likely on the west lines.

Looks like in this collection of 100 photos, 60% of the time U30Bs are running SHF. I didn't go through every one for a tally, but I think it's safe to say the majority of the time lead units in this group of photos are running SHF.

Andy
 
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Thanks for the paint recommendations. With all this long nose and short nose forward, I have to ask, why did the N&W run long nose forward in the first place. I could see it if they were saving time by not turning a locomotive around but it seems like it was the preference on the N&W.
 
Again, this discussion has been held many times. Both the N&W and Southern ran long hood first from the times of the earliest hood diesels and the NS continues to do so to this day. This is usually justified as being safer because you have all that sheet metal and the prime mover to protect you. With today's safety cabs, this idea no longer makes any sense, since the collision posts and crumple zones are really more effective at preventing injury than a lot of mass. There's also the safety issue of having such a limited view running long hood first compared to running a modern engine short hood first, where you at least have a chance to see a problem a lot sooner. If, in fact, running long hood first was really safer, you can be sure that more than one railroad would still be doing it. The only real consensus I've seen is that it's simply tradition and something NS engineers are used to. I expect all that will change as the current engineers retire and new engineers take over.
 
Andy, just wondering if you ever ended up putting a sound system in this locomotive? I have one of these with two more on the way and would love any suggestions you have from your experience.
 



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