Any advice on fixing warped HO E8 steps / ladders?

[blues90]

I have an old Model Power E8 that I removed the bolsters from the cast frame so I could fit brass bar stock and make bolsters that would fit Athearn 6 axle trucks and used an Athearn motor and flywheels and A-line E8 side frames . That I did years ago . I bought the E8 from PPW in the mid 80's and the motor was junk and it came with an undec E8 shell .

The only problem is the rear steps seem to be warped out ward at the bottom on both sides. Nothing else on the shell is warped unless this was the way the ladders were cast . I also have a concor E7 shell which is the same basic shell and the ladders are not warped at all.

I recall many years ago I got a walthers H10-44 and the shop I got it from had it in the glass case and the sun warped the sides a bit so I used a hair dryer and heated it just enough to be able to shape the sides back to normal. I heated it and held the sides until cool and it worked . The steps are a bit different , thinner . I'd hate to ruin them . The only other thought I had was cutting part way through the inside top of the steps with a razor saw and then apply plastic cement like testors to the cut, push the steps straight and let the cement weld them back in the proper position.

They stick out about 1/16" at the bottom they should be straight with the sides of the shell.

 

[JimT]

Blues 90 why the remotering and such? I had a bunch of Model Power E-7' and E-9's and they were all fabulous runners, a couple of them would pull the paint off the walls and they were powered by the biggest can motor I've seen. 2 powered units would easily pull 20 - 25 85' passenger cars up a 2 % Grade. I wish I had a use for a couple these days.

 

[Cjcrescent]

You could try heating them, but instead of a hair dryer, I would use very hot water, not boiling and would soak the shell in it for several minutes. Then I would slowly bend them in. If you do break them, you can reassemble with cement, or just replace them with steps from Cal-Scale (Bowser), Precision Scale Co, Details West, etc.

I would be worried about removing too much material with a saw.

 

[blues90]

Blues 90 why the remotering and such? I had a bunch of Model Power E-7' and E-9's and they were all fabulous runners, a couple of them would pull the paint off the walls and they were powered by the biggest can motor I've seen. 2 powered units would easily pull 20 - 25 85' passenger cars up a 2 % Grade. I wish I had a use for a couple these days.

Well Jim when I got the E8 model power it was from the days when you could drive to rail power products/a-line products on arrow highway about 1 1/2 hour drive from here . I was looking for an E8 and called and they had one . However turns out it was a used unit in a box that said EMD E7 powered UP , this was in the mid 80's and at that time they were out of production. It was the heavy cast metal chassis and large can motor with one cast large flywheel that was held in place by a cast metal bar and had an undec E8 shell on it with a screw through the roof at the top that held the front of the shell to the body and a tab at the rear. So for $55 I bought it. When I got home it ran but the motor had this loud squealing noise then would stop . The motor was held in place by a plastic clip on strap . I took the motor apart and the brushes were worn and the bushings were worn so I got a NWSL large can motor the same diameter and length to replace it and all was fine until a few of the red axle gears split and no parts were available . I had a model power FA powered in pennsy and a dummy FB had the same motor and it was new and worked great. I was not about to use the FA as a parts unti because it took me forever at the time to find any FA untit also out of production until train minature came out with shells and frames through rail power products.

And to that since most of my loco's were BB athearn I wanted to be able to run the E8 with the athearns so I changed the frame a bit to mount the athearn trucks and motor with dual brass flywheels and it pulled even better plus rail power products made E8/E7 sideframes that fit athearn 6 axle trucks and it ran with my athearns perfectly.

Sometimes you do what you have to do . I really didn't like the model power trucks either yet the looked fine it was just the gears and the wheels on one side had plastic centers with a metal rim and one side of the truck was metal and the main frame of the truck was cast plastic and the axle bearing was plastic one one side and metal on the other so the axle bearings on mine wore more on the metal side and had to much play , probably why the gears cracked . You have to admit athearn trucks with the square bronze bushings are much better in design .

So that's the story of why I chose the route I chose. Later on I got a concor E7 and it had the same trucks only the truck halves were both delrin plastic and the trucks mounted with screw rather than the tab type mount model power had yet the frame was some sort of fiberglass and had a metal weight but had the same large can motor . Yet had the same red plastic axle gears which also cracked so the concor E7 has dead trucks now . At least you can still get athearn axle gears and replace them or still get the complete wheel sets .

 

[blues90]

You could try heating them, but instead of a hair dryer, I would use very hot water, not boiling and would soak the shell in it for several minutes. Then I would slowly bend them in. If you do break them, you can reassemble with cement, or just replace them with steps from Cal-Scale (Bowser), Precision Scale Co, Details West, etc.

I would be worried about removing too much material with a saw.

I'll try the hot water trick on an old athearn f7 shell and see what happens . I worry heating to large an area of the shell may cause the shell to warp . I thought if it just cut half way through the back side of each ladder with a thin razor saw the amount of plastic removed by the saw would be just enough to add testors cement and allow the ladders to flex back just enough to close the gap and set straight again . But I will try the hot water first as a test and if all goes well do it on the E8 , course athearn ladders are thicker than model power ones . It all fails then I will get new ladders from one on the detail parts you mentioned . I know I saw them plus I need the one ladder model power seemed to leave off by the door above the E8 fuel tank or at least placed it cast on but it the spot that lines up with the E7 . I did glue athearn f7 steps there but they are to thick and look bulky , it was just an attempt at the time. Odd that concor removed the over the tank door steps off on their E7 but you can see just a trace of where they used to be when model power owned the shells and frames. I found an old Prototype Modeler 1988 magazine that has both the model power E7 and E8 built as pennsy units and prototype scale drawings of both .

What I want to do is close the front pilots wide opening designed for the swing of the truck mounted couplers . The one model of the E8 used the detail associates white metal casting to replace the model power pilot and I do have that part but the model power stock pilot is already the passenger style so I just need to add a bit to the bottom so it sits above the rails the proper height and shape it a bit for the proper bottom contour and close the wide gap and add the coupler cover like many did have . The top of the shell is the correct scale height above the rails yet they made the pilot not long enough yet the buffer is proper height. Looking at the finished E8 in that magazine the detail associates pilot from the side view sets on the wrong angle almost looks like a freight pilot it should follow the angle of the bulldog nose looking at the scale drawings. The Model power shell pilot sits at the proper angle, just needs a little modification.

 

[JimT]

Blues90, A-line on Arrow Highway? I lived in Arcadia in those days and had a store in Monrovia. What was A-line connected too? I hung out in back of the Whistle Stop when I had the time, lots in the summer when it was to hot to work in Monrovia. I think Fred drove a Ferrari then and Brian had an Pontiac 2 seater.

I remember driving a car that was fun, got 15mpg highway, and I didn't care. Wow. Now I get 20 in town and won't leave the house without two errands to do.

It sounds like you got yourself a(s) Rivarossi/AHM EMD E-8, the shells wern't bad, the drive was a joke. If I remember the Model Power E-7 and E-9's both A and B units were 39.95 and available. Paint was OK too. No big holes in the pilots for couplers eighter. An ABA of those would challenge my DC system (Mark x's) and pull every car I owned or so it seemed.

 

[Cjcrescent]

Jim, he described the Model Power E's to a tea. Screw on the roof and a tab in back, definitely MP. But unlike the old AHM chassis, the motor was about 1" or so wide and 2-3" long, and mounted on the chassis, and these locos had full 12 wheel drive, not 1 truck like the AHM. Everyone thinks of MP as being "train set" quality stuff, but these locos were made in Austria by Roco, the same time that they were making locos for Atlas. MR in a review at the time, called them one of the most powerful pullers they had ever seen.

I still have a FA by them with the big motor, single flywheel and 8 wheel drive. When I get A Round Tuit, I'll run it through a stripper and repaint into my shortline, along with all the cast on details replaced by more appropriate details.

 

[blues90]

Blues90, A-line on Arrow Highway? I lived in Arcadia in those days and had a store in Monrovia. What was A-line connected too? I hung out in back of the Whistle Stop when I had the time, lots in the summer when it was to hot to work in Monrovia. I think Fred drove a Ferrari then and Brian had an Pontiac 2 seater.

I remember driving a car that was fun, got 15mpg highway, and I didn't care. Wow. Now I get 20 in town and won't leave the house without two errands to do.

It sounds like you got yourself a(s) Rivarossi/AHM EMD E-8, the shells wern't bad, the drive was a joke. If I remember the Model Power E-7 and E-9's both A and B units were 39.95 and available. Paint was OK too. No big holes in the pilots for couplers eighter. An ABA of those would challenge my DC system (Mark x's) and pull every car I owned or so it seemed.

Yes arrow highway was a-line and also rail power products who made shells and repower kits and modified frames for athearn BB units . If I recall they were also proto power west . I think proto power west is the name they now go by. They still sell whats left of the rail power shells and some frames and the repower kits .

I always went to the Whistle Stop in Pasadina , I remember Brain , he used to wear a vest with every railroad pin on it he could fit.

I don't recall model power ever having a B unit for the E7 or 8's . Mine is definitely a model power chassis and shell and it does have the wide cutouts in the pilot because the couples were mounted on the trucks just like was done on the PK2 lifelike units and many other long 6 axle units so they could make the turns. Rivarossi had one power truck and the same three poll motor they used in everything but mounted vertical.

 

[blues90]

Jim, he described the Model Power E's to a tea. Screw on the roof and a tab in back, definitely MP. But unlike the old AHM chassis, the motor was about 1" or so wide and 2-3" long, and mounted on the chassis, and these locos had full 12 wheel drive, not 1 truck like the AHM. Everyone thinks of MP as being "train set" quality stuff, but these locos were made in Austria by Roco, the same time that they were making locos for Atlas. MR in a review at the time, called them one of the most powerful pullers they had ever seen.

I still have a FA by them with the big motor, single flywheel and 8 wheel drive. When I get A Round Tuit, I'll run it through a stripper and repaint into my shortline, along with all the cast on details replaced by more appropriate details.

Yes the model power E7 and E8 have a very similar drive as the older Roco FP7's that had the same large can motor . I have the latter Atlas /Roco FP7's that have a much taller frame with that added weight and the same motor atlas /Roco used in their S2's and 4's and was used in the Walthers H10/12-44 . My Atlas FP-7s have dual brass flywheels and the trucks as far as I can recall are made sort of like the Model Power E units as far as the wrap around side frame goes but the E units side frame mounted to the truck with a tab and brass screw the FP7 snap on . I never opened one up on the FP7 so I don't know what sort of gears they have they may be more like the yellow box wheels sets atlas used on most all of the made in Japan altas loco's . I don't recall seeing plastic hub drive wheels like the model power used they look like the wheel sets used in altas /Roco S2's not the Kato trucks Atlas used in the C424 or RS3 or RS 11 which had the brass or copper bearing plates that the axles used to set in for bearings .

Things have changed so very much but I do remember the old atlas /kato and atlas roco units very well . I remember the Model; power , powered FA I had and the dummy FB . The FA had traction tires on some of the drive wheels so I used the wheels off the Model Power E8 not the axle but just the wheels because with the traction tires the unit rocked side to side and had a slight hop to it . I can't recall but I think the axle gears were different on the FA but the wheels were the same . I would have kept the MP E8 with the stock trucks if the red axle gears would have not cracked I have 4 good and 2 cracked red MP axle gears from the stock E8 trucks but the athearn 6 axle trucks with the E unit side frames A-line put out are a bit shorter in the wheel base but one would never notice without a ruler. I guess later one Concor took over the Model power shell and still had the rear tab but had one tab on the each side near the front on the shell that clipped into two small slots in the frame and they added a circuit board but used the same side frames and tank yet on the Concor E7 shell there is a small casting right where the of the E8 model power shell had the screw . Concor also changed the trucks where they were now held in place by a screw as a pivot rather than the T-head MP used to have and the trucks were all plastic on both halves rather than one side cast metal . It was all just a few die changes Concor did as an improvement but I didn't care for the body clips at the front they never stayed in place well at all. Odd thing is the dummy Concor E7 did have the worm and gears but had no red gears on the wheel sets . If I had good axle gears I would have powered the dummy E7 .

 

[blues90]

You could try heating them, but instead of a hair dryer, I would use very hot water, not boiling and would soak the shell in it for several minutes. Then I would slowly bend them in. If you do break them, you can reassemble with cement, or just replace them with steps from Cal-Scale (Bowser), Precision Scale Co, Details West, etc.

I would be worried about removing too much material with a saw.

I used an athean f7 frame as a spacer which fit well into the shell . Then heated some hot water in the microwave hot enough so it was too hot to touch but not hot enough to burn fingers , I used small zip ties to pull the warped ladders together then let it sit in hot water for 4 minutes let it cool and they are now straight . I needed to do one of the front ladders as well . Thank for the suggestions.

 

[JimT]

My memory worked for a minute! My 2 EMD E9b's were Cary Shells with AHM dummy frames. I had a Cary E7b shell as well but sold it years ago unbuilt. Those Cary shells weighed about a pound.