Ancient Proto2000 GP9 - Wiring Mystery

[IronBeltKen]

Well, I HAD it working...

...for a while at least.

First, I replaced the left rail pickup circuit with a thinner wire. Tested it without the shell - it ran ok, but it growled like a freakin blender. Then I barely got the shell onto it, and that amplified the growl. I also needed to apply a lot of power to get it moving (~12-13 on 24 speed steps). The decoder itself also seemed to be putting out an awful lot of heat. But wait - it gets even better:

I got a chance to see my PSX circuit breaker in action for the first time since I installed it. That's right, now it's totally shorting out!

I've wasted four evenings with this piece of crap! It's headed to the scrapper's torch.

I guess I can't expect all of my installs to succeed...

 

[PApat]

Ken, before you toss it, I recommend one more thing. I've reviewed the thread and didn't see you mention taking the trucks completely apart. I think you replaced the axles. There is another odd thing about these early P2Ks - the grease they used inside the worm and transfer gears. I've purchased some older units and had the issue of the engine not moving at all. After trying a bunch of things, I finally looked inside the trucks and found the grease had hardened to the point of the thing not moving at all! I would recommend removing the trucks, taking them completely apart and cleaning them completely. Get a bunch of Qtips and wipe all that gooey grease out, spray with your favorite cleaner (which doesn't destroy plastic) and then reassemble. This alone could cause the overheating you have in the unit.

I stopped buying P2K for this reason alone. But it's tempting, because they made some great GP7/9/18 models. I also have a bunch of GP30's I've repainted in Reading colors. I haven't switched to DCC yet, so all my units run DC, but this shouldn't make much of a difference, (Other than some units in DC run more slowly than others, but that's a different problem)...

Good luck and don't get too frustrated!

 

[kbkchooch]

Relax Ken. Send it up here

 

[Boris]

...for a while at least.

First, I replaced the left rail pickup circuit with a thinner wire. Tested it without the shell - it ran ok, but it growled like a freakin blender. Then I barely got the shell onto it, and that amplified the growl. I also needed to apply a lot of power to get it moving (~12-13 on 24 speed steps). The decoder itself also seemed to be putting out an awful lot of heat. But wait - it gets even better:

I got a chance to see my PSX circuit breaker in action for the first time since I installed it. That's right, now it's totally shorting out!

I've wasted four evenings with this piece of crap! It's headed to the scrapper's torch.

I guess I can't expect all of my installs to succeed...

Ken, I completely understand how you feel, having experienced "similar" frustration. Just set it aside and move on for now.

For what it's worth, the GP7 I couldn't get to move moves nicely at slow speeds, including an incredible crawl in DC mode, however it sings loudly above 70% power although it appears to move freely. I did not find the gooey mess in the gears, the lubricant was wet although abundant.

FWIW, the oldest P2K Geeps were the Phase 3, which were similar to the GP18s. Is the motor an older higher current draw motor, perhaps?

These older units that have been sitting are "interesting" to say the least.

Joe

 

[IronBeltKen]

Good morning. Amazing what wonders a decent night's sleep can do. My blood serotonin level is back to normal

Relax Ken. Send it up here

Thanks Karl, but that might not be necessary after all! (read on...)

Ken, before you toss it, ... I would recommend removing the trucks, taking them completely apart and cleaning them completely. Get a bunch of Qtips and wipe all that gooey grease out, spray with your favorite cleaner (which doesn't destroy plastic) and then reassemble. This alone could cause the overheating you have in the unit.

...
Good luck and don't get too frustrated!

First thing after breakfast this morning, I took the shell back off the geep, put the chassis on the main, and the shorting problem disappeared - but it was still squealing like a stuck pig! Then I caught a glimpse of the flywheel near the short-hood end: it was blackened from rubbed-off insulation. Looks like the 'positive' motor wire was being pressed against it by the shell, and when the flywheel spun, it tried to suck the wire up around itself. Apparently the insulation got totally rubbed off at some point, and, presto - a short!

I used an extra piece of electrical tape to anchor the excess motor wire away from the flywheel, then replaced the shell. Whaddaya know - it ran normal! Starts moving at '3' now, instead of 12. And it runs quiet long-hood-forward, though it still growls a teensy bit in the opposite direction. No overheating of the decoder either, from what I could see.

...FWIW, the oldest P2K Geeps were the Phase 3, which were similar to the GP18s. Is the motor an older higher current draw motor, perhaps? ...

Yep that's what it is alright, a Phase 3 with the 48" fans. The motor looks a lot like an Athearn now that you mention it. Maybe I'll test the current draw with my RRampmeter later on. At least it doesn't appear to have the 'hardened grease' problem that Pat described above; I'd prefer to hold off with disassembling the trucks for a little bit longer, i.e., until I see a recurrence of the earlier type of problems. I'm ready to move on to the other five remaining locos.

Thanks again for all the replies, gents!

 

[PApat]

That 'splains it! Good luck with this loco in the future...

-bill

 

[IronBeltKen]

That 'splains it! Good luck with this loco in the future...

-bill

Aha...I knew your real name wasn't "Pat", but I couldn't find it in your earlier posts! LOL [BTW - Thanks for your replies]

. . .

Well, I completed another P2K geep this evening - a C&O GP7 that I bought ~1999 or 2000. Not sure exactly when, but several years after the Phase 3 geep that was giving me grief all this week. What a difference it makes when the motor is already isolated from the frame!

 

[PApat]

I have to admit, since I'm still running DC, I've been known to remove the whole PC board and hardwire from the trucks to the motor for a model that I thought I had to have - the GP38-2 D&H locos come to mind. I went to school on those - first the cracked axles, then the locked up gears, and when that was fixed, one of the 38's I had purchased was a lot slower than the other, so I couldn't run them in a consist, hence the hardwire.

I now try to purchase Atlas or Kato. But, I do know of posters here that have purchased present-day Protos that run very well, without all the problems associated with pre-Walthers locos. I was starting back in the hobby and found a lot of new-old stock in LV colors, so I couldn't resist.

 

[IronBeltKen]

I now try to purchase Atlas or Kato. But, I do know of posters here that have purchased present-day Protos that run very well, without all the problems associated with pre-Walthers locos. I was starting back in the hobby and found a lot of new-old stock in LV colors, so I couldn't resist.

Roger THAT! I wanted a few B&O GP30's to run on my layout, but only P2K offers them with the regular [narrower] cab on the fireman's side. So I've got two of those that still need decoders installed.

 

[PApat]

I have two 30's I repainted as Reading units and two B&O. One I painted and used the very early "Starburst" theme from the '60's.