Amtrak Train Derails Near Philadelphia
- Thread starter bnsf971
- Start date
Boris
Beach Bum
Actually, in Philadelphia, at Frankford Jct, just East of Shore Interlocking. #188 used to be my going home train when we ended up working to the last minute.
Used to be a Philadelphia based crew, but that was 7 years ago. Derailment location is on a 50mph curve, and has been the site of several other notorious and disastrous wrecks over the years.
Used to be a Philadelphia based crew, but that was 7 years ago. Derailment location is on a 50mph curve, and has been the site of several other notorious and disastrous wrecks over the years.
Boris
Beach Bum
The passenger train was operating Eastward on a Four Track Mainline is owned, operated and maintained by Amtrak. It's a sharp 90° curve restricted to 50MPH. The adjacent yard shown in the photos and video is owned, operated and maintained by Conrail (Shared Assets). The train came to rest a distance from the track it was operating, indicating speed "may" have been a factor. Of course, I'm sitting 80 miles away, and eight years removed from when I last ran a locomotive over that territory, so my assessment is speculation.
Boris
Beach Bum
The actual Google Maps co-ordinates link is https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0013355,-75.0928227,17z
The footbridge prominently pictured in news photos is Wheatsheaf St, which continues across Conrail's Frankford Junction yard. The wreckage debris field appears to be East of the footbridge on Conrail tracks to the NE of the left hand curve. While I generally discount anything reported by CNN, I tend to believe that speed might be a significant factor.
The footbridge prominently pictured in news photos is Wheatsheaf St, which continues across Conrail's Frankford Junction yard. The wreckage debris field appears to be East of the footbridge on Conrail tracks to the NE of the left hand curve. While I generally discount anything reported by CNN, I tend to believe that speed might be a significant factor.
John P
Active Member
If that turns out to be true--yikes indeed. And remember the December 2013 derailment at Spuyten Duyvil NY, same thing, over 80mph in a 30mph zone. And fading into history, the accident at Back Bay station in Boston in 1990, 76mph in a 30mph zone. Positive Train Control just keeps sounding better.
Cnn, and almost all the press, in general are just terrible at journalism. Case in point is illustrated when it comes to transportation issues and accidents like these. Cnn in particular hires a wind bag like Mary Schiavo who has little knowledge and no real world knowledge about other than siting behind a government desk and "calling Valujet." She has zero clue about what happens in the front line of aviation, railroads, or anything for that matter. For cnn and other firms to pay her for her drivel is ludicrous.
Guilfordguy
New Member
Watch the CBS news tonight. I just watched the WBZ news, it said the train was going 107 in a 50 zone & the engineer was refusing to cooperate with the police.
John P
Active Member
"Casey Jones, you better watch your speed
Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
Trouble with you is the trouble with me
Got two good eyes but we still don't see
Come round the bend, you know it's the end
The fireman screams and the engine just gleams."
Trouble ahead, trouble behind,
And you know that notion just crossed my mind.
Trouble with you is the trouble with me
Got two good eyes but we still don't see
Come round the bend, you know it's the end
The fireman screams and the engine just gleams."
Boris
Beach Bum
That's a perfect example of irresponsible TV journalism. First of all, the "police" are not qualified to investigate railroad accidents. From experience, more time is spent at these incidents, arguing over who's investigation takes precedence, than it takes to investigate the incident.
When an occurrence such as this takes place, there are procedures in place to determine the cause of the incident and determine responsibility, if any. The local and state government workers all want to be involved, and literally get in the way and impede the investigation, inadvertently destroy pertinent evidence, and making reckless and inflammatory remarks, which are then further embellished by a sensation driven news media. It's bad enough when the "Clown Show" from the NTSB appears and set up their impromptu field TV studio, to feed dribble to the media, but at least the NTSB employs competent qualified investigators who work behind the scene to assist in determining the cause.
Once I saw the photos of where the locomotive and cars came to rest, it was obvious to me that excessive speed was the cause. Then again, I spent 17 years investigating accidents, determining cause, and implementing corrective action. I was also certified and qualified to run trains over that territory.
The so called event recorder records numerous functions that are downloadable, so this factor should have been known to the Amtrak team early in the investigation. The remaining question is how this happened, with all the proper safety provisions in place.
Since the physical infrastructure at the location is well maintained, track structure should not be a factor. The curve has been there for over a hundred years, so the qualified engineer is aware of it. The locomotive appears to be one of the new motors recently acquired from Siemens , the locomotive is equipped with cab signals and train control equipment. I'm not sure if Amtrak's version of Positive train control has been implemented at that location, but implementation was already in process when I retired seven years ago, if it was implemented, then it should have applied the train braking systems if the engineer was inattentive or incapacitated.
JazzDad
Gandy Dancer
Iron Horseman
Well-Known Member
Ditto, I think anyone with any knowledge of simple physics and Newton's laws could look at that aerial photo and easily tell not only it was excessive speed but where the where the equipment left the tack, etc. An wreck from an outside broken rail would have looked completely different.
I like the photo that shows the bent rails in the Yard that finally halted the locos forward motion.
John P
Active Member
Now the reports are saying, "Investigators are looking at a 'good quality video' that shows the train speeding up in the moments leading up to its derailment. They don't know yet what caused the train to accelerate to more than 100 mph. [National Transportation Safety Board member Robert] Sumwalt said 65 seconds before the end of the recording, the train speed went above 70 mph, and then steadily increased."
I don't want to think "Germanwings", but it's out there.
I don't want to think "Germanwings", but it's out there.
Boris
Beach Bum
That's an Interesting fact Mr. Sumwalt released. 70MPH is in line with track speed immediately prior to the 50 mph curve restriction. At 70 mph, it takes 51.4 seconds to travel a mile, which 65 seconds before the accident, would have placed the train at the breaking point for the restriction. [Just East of Automatic Signal 834]. The event recorder should show if he applied braking or power at that particular point. There is no power braking, you shut off the throttle, and apply the brake until you are down to the appropriate speed. Once in the curve, you begin to accelerate going into the next (60 mph) curve, and continue to accelerate to track speed once out of the second curve. The event recorder, is capable of recording throttle and brake application, so they should be able to determine if this was willful acceleration, or if there was operator initiated emergency application of the brakes. There is also a short voice recorder loop in the event recorder, to determine what may have been said immediately before the derailment.
Boris
Beach Bum
Normally only the engineer is in the cab, the train was being pulled. [Only the Keystone service operates with push - pull equipment].
