Advice Needed With Rapido Wide-Vision Caboose RESOLVED


Smudge617

Smudge617

Well-Known Member
I recently purchased this but I'm having issues with derailments on curves, I've done all the usual checks, free running wheels, wheel gauge etc. and everything is within normal parameters.

When I checked the lateral movement of the trucks, there's little movement, the foto shows how far the truck will move in either direction, and seems very stiff in comparison to my other cars, I've tried loosening the truck screws but that makes no difference, it seems the wheels are fouling the detail underneath, I've also tried smaller wheels, but they still foul the detail's

Anyone else had this or a similar problem, any advice would be welcome.

Burlington Caboose1.jpg


Burlington Caboose.jpg
 
How tight a curve are you trying to run that caboose on? Compared to some cars I've seen, that truck appears to swivel a fair amount. Keep in mind, once you start getting into higher quality/detail products, there is kind of an unwritten expectation that such cars will be run on wider radius curves. I know that sounds kind of funny, but adding details under a rail car starts to restrict the swivel area of the truck; more realistic construction and detail means more realistic curve radius.

Rapido are pretty high quality, and although they may not say so on their website, I don't think many of their cars are intended to be run on 15" inch or similar curves. I don't have any of their freight cars, but the passenger cars I have will barely make it through a 20" curve.

If it's the insufficient truck swing that's truly causing your derailments, all you can do is cut off the detail that's obstructing it. As suggested by bnsf971 above, you will have to remove the brake lines, and if that's not enough, you may need to shave the center beam and/or the steps, if those are obstructing it too. You'll have to decide whether it's worth it to you, to remove detail like that.

The alternative is to run it on wider curves, or put it on the shelf until you upgrade to a larger layout, unfortunately.
 
bnsf971 said:
In order to be able to negotiate tighter curves, you’re going to have to remove the brake lines that are rubbing the wheels.
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skyliner said:
How tight a curve are you trying to run that caboose on? Compared to some cars I've seen, that truck appears to swivel a fair amount. Keep in mind, once you start getting into higher quality/detail products, there is kind of an unwritten expectation that such cars will be run on wider radius curves. I know that sounds kind of funny, but adding details under a rail car starts to restrict the swivel area of the truck; more realistic construction and detail means more realistic curve radius.

Rapido are pretty high quality, and although they may not say so on their website, I don't think many of their cars are intended to be run on 15" inch or similar curves. I don't have any of their freight cars, but the passenger cars I have will barely make it through a 20" curve.

If it's the insufficient truck swing that's truly causing your derailments, all you can do is cut off the detail that's obstructing it. As suggested by bnsf971 above, you will have to remove the brake lines, and if that's not enough, you may need to shave the center beam and/or the steps, if those are obstructing it too. You'll have to decide whether it's worth it to you, to remove detail like that.

The alternative is to run it on wider curves, or put it on the shelf until you upgrade to a larger layout, unfortunately.
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Yeah, thanks guy's, I had that sinking feeling that would be the case, thankfully it's underneath the car, so I don't think it will be noticeable.
 
It SHOULD be made for curves like that though, as the prototype could certainly negotiate a tight curve like that (a wye track, for example). Even a real-world four axle EMD switcher could make it through a 15" HO curve, so a caboose certainly should too.

[I confirmed this just last week, in fact, with a DSJtrains video posted here. I didn't believe him but looking it up proved he was right]

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There's one other possibility you should check first before altering, cutting, or gluing anything else: The flange on that bottom left wheel just might be the culprit. Perhaps IT is interfering with the corner of that coupler box. This photo angle shows it's at least possible.

But assuming it's the brake line, you could bend it as it comes out left from the brake cylinder in such a way that you can pin it back against the frame or the hard rod coming from the bell crank. The brake line is probably going to be a slippery (Delrin) plastic, so you might need a big ball of quick-set epoxy to glom around it and hold it fast. A small dab of any glue, even a CA--super glue--won't be enough with Delrin plastic. Delrin is just too slippery. Gonna need enough to grab it mechanically and hold it in place.

Last: That brake line comes out of the cylinder, then bends slightly up (from this angle) and to the outside before bending more severely down the other way. If you can't curve it enough to glue it to the frame and have it stay there long term, I suggest you cut off that "standoff post" that holds it down below the last big body cross stiffener. I can see it's on a standoff post here because of the post's angled shadow....

I would cut it flush where it meets the car frame stiffener (X-acto knife, and do it gently), rather than where it meets the brake line. That should make the line a LOT more flexible by the time it bends back where the wheel flange is. At that point a tiny dab of epoxy or even CA should hold the post in its new position further back against the frame. You might not evan want to glue it at all--just let it "float" around a bit. Unless it sags down visually, I'd bet you'll forget you ever cut it at all.

FWIW, this seems to be a slight "design disconnect" between Rapido and their manufacturer in China, but it really should have been caught during testing IMO.
That said, sometimes even important stuff can slip through the cracks.
 
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I've gone through this exercise a number of times by trial and error with my narrow gauge cars I am building. I start out with the prototype, which as pointed out may not have to negotiate model layout radius curves.
 
Before you cut ANYTHING, look for all points of possible interference. In this case the photo shows possible problems with the wheel flanges hitting the corners of both the coupler box and the sides of the stairs. I had a similar problem with a Walthers caboose, and was able to fix it without cutting by swapping in the trucks from a Walthers ore car, which had a shorter wheelbase. They weren’t exactly true to prototype, but it’s unlikely anyone will ever notice it, especially when the car is on the layout. Your track could also be the problem, especially if it uses flex track, which can suffer tight spots.

Good Luck - Bill in FtL
 
I've always been of the opinion that most underbody detail is not needed, so I would carve away. The coupler box cover looks like a bigger issue than the brake lines.
 
That degree of swivel seems extreme to me. However, if that's what they have to do on your curves, then you have little choice but to start filing. Maybe try to round out the coupler box corners by 1 full mm. It won't affect the function of the coupler or compromise the box's integrity.
 
What radius are you running it on? Have you removed the truck to see if there is flash on the truck bolster of kingpin. Put some graphite or lube on the truck king pin. Check if the king pin is too tight in bolster hole. It looks like there is enough swivel. Get a piece of track with a curve on it, put the caboose on the curve and then look if the truck is hitting stuff. I would do a lot of investigation before I start whacking details off a VERY expensive caboose.
 
dave1905 said:
What radius are you running it on? Have you removed the truck to see if there is flash on the truck bolster of kingpin. Put some graphite or lube on the truck king pin. Check if the king pin is too tight in bolster hole. It looks like there is enough swivel. Get a piece of track with a curve on it, put the caboose on the curve and then look if the truck is hitting stuff. I would do a lot of investigation before I start whacking details off a VERY expensive caboose.
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Thank's I'll try your suggestion and let you know.
 
Selector said:
That degree of swivel seems extreme to me. However, if that's what they have to do on your curves, then you have little choice but to start filing. Maybe try to round out the coupler box corners by 1 full mm. It won't affect the function of the coupler or compromise the box's integrity.
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Thank's I'll try that.
 
santafewillie said:
I've always been of the opinion that most underbody detail is not needed, so I would carve away. The coupler box cover looks like a bigger issue than the brake lines.
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I don't really want to hack stuff off if it can be avoided, that would be the last resort.
 
Something that I had to do with several of my scratch built narrow gauge passenger cars built to prototype dimensions was the trucks hitting the steps on my tighter radius curves. As I couldn't move the bolsters, I changed the pivot point on the truck slightly, just enough to clear. Most trucks would be hard to modify, but these were amenable.
 
747flier said:
Something that I had to do with several of my scratch built narrow gauge passenger cars built to prototype dimensions was the trucks hitting the steps on my tighter radius curves. As I couldn't move the bolsters, I changed the pivot point on the truck slightly, just enough to clear. Most trucks would be hard to modify, but these were amenable.
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The trucks clear the steps with about 1/8th" to spare and as I've just spent the afternoon trying to solve this derailment problem, the only way I could get the caboose to run without de-railing was by changing the track geometry which worked insofar as I kept moving the point of derailment further along the curve, I've worked out the caboose, as is, would need a minimum 25" radius curve, my maximum curve is about 21".

I could cut of some of the underside detail off as Willie suggested, but I've realised the wheels will then simply hit the center framework instead, so I would need to lower the trucks.

I'm really thinking of maybe swapping out the trucks to ones with couplers, that would then guide the trucks in the direction they need to turn, if that works then maybe cutting off the underside detail if needed would be worth doing.

At the moment this thing's given me a headache, which I don't need, so it's back in it's box for another time.

Strangely the (very) cheap Bachmann CN caboose I have, although it runs terribly negotiates my curves with no problem.....

I could try a set of OO scale wheels, but I'm pretty sure that won't work either.
 
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25" seems rather extreme radius as many HO layouts are on 4'x8' or similar module sizes. I had to expand the size of the layout I am building to have 18-20" radius curves to accommodate my narrow gauge steam locos. The more expensive prototype locos seem to need more prototype radiuses. Cabooses often had a different truck than the freight cars, perhaps you can find one with a shorter wheelbase?
 
747flier said:
25" seems rather extreme radius as many HO layouts are on 4'x8' or similar module sizes. I had to expand the size of the layout I am building to have 18-20" radius curves to accommodate my narrow gauge steam locos. The more expensive prototype locos seem to need more prototype radiuses. Cabooses often had a different truck than the freight cars, perhaps you can find one with a shorter wheelbase?
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Yeah, that's an option, the Bachmann works kind of, but looks cheap even at 5' distance.
If I see about getting something similar to the Rapido, but I've not seen another one with marker and interior lights at a reasonable price.
 
Another thought. Add a Kadee red washer to the bolster, (KD #208), and then add a Kadee overset coupler (# 142) to bring it to standard height. That may just give the extra clearance needed without trimming.
 
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