A question as old as the 40's


Steamguy

Steamguy

Member
This question is probably the most controversial question when it comes to railroading.
Which 4-8-4 is the best?
SP GS-4
UP FEF-3
NYC Niagara
N&W J Class

Best regards,
Jim
 
Performance-wise or style-wise I don't know but I have to agree with Motley. Longevity should definitely be a factor and UP's 844 has been in continuous service long enough for the grandchildren or even the great-grandchildren of the original crews to be serving on the current crews.
 
If operating condition is the measure then the Reading T-1 wins hands down because more operating examples of those engines lasted longer (2100, 2101, 2102, 2124).
 
I agree with the UP FEF3, where are the rest ????? Did get to ride behind it a few years back too. ;););););)
 
I with there was a way I could justify having one on my layout. I have a brass NP northern DSC02095[1].jpg But it's just a tad too long for my turntables, and the 844 is longer I believe.
 
Burlington's O-5's looked quite a bit like that Santa Fe Northern. They were used in both passenger runs as well as time freight service. "They steamed best with the throttle wide open, and the Johnson bar down in the corner!" - "Steam Locomotives of the Burlington Route." Most had all-weather cabs, however. IIRC #5629 is at the Colorado Railroad Museum in Golden, CO. Sadly, it is not in running condition, and one of the requirements of the Burlington when they donated the engine was that it be welded permanently to the rails it sits on! :(
 
montanan said:
I with there was a way I could justify having one on my layout. I have a brass NP northern View attachment 39707 But it's just a tad too long for my turntables, and the 844 is longer I believe.
Click to expand...

That is a real beauty .. Great looking detail and painting work!

844 is only around because UP decided to do a very nice thing and save it .. Not because it is the "best".
SP&S 700? Is a nicer looking locomotive for one that is serviceable.(my opinion)
 
To me the classiest 4-8-4's were the Statesmen and General Classes on the RF&P. They were elegant, powerful locomotives.
Too bad they never made these is plastic. Brass is the only way to get one of these. I have my eye out for one.
 
man this discussion will go on forever
the 700 in portland never gets much love , not like the 4449 or the 844
 
Steamguy said:
This question is probably the most controversial question when it comes to railroading.
Which 4-8-4 is the best?
SP GS-4
UP FEF-3
NYC Niagara
N&W J Class
Click to expand...
Once again a "best" question cannot be answered without the further clarification of best in what regard. Clearly the argument of ones running today is a red herring because that much more a factor of where the money and interest and raw materials are. I am certain many of the BEST Northerns never had a chance to be preserved. Scrap metal is very valuable.

Best pulling, best looking (entirely subjective), most fuel efficient, best speed deamon, most reliable, most economical (least cost of ownership), etc.???

It is sort of like the Big Boy. It is "biggest" only if one is counting drawbar to drawbar length. It is not the heaviest, most powerful, biggest wheel arrangement, tallest, or even widest. It is only the biggest in one dimension.

Of the ones in your list I would have to submit the N&W J, as it is the most modern and evolved of the lot.

I would also contend that the "best" Northern isn't even in that list. Santa Fe 2900 class never got a chance to prove themselves because of Santa Fe's hurry to dieselize. The whole class all went to very early graves. No one has mentioned the RF&P (oops I see someone did!), Great Northern, Rock Islands, GTW, CN all magnificent machines and many deserving of being considered best in some way or another. I do strongly contend that the Northerns were the over all finest class of locomotive to grace the American rails regardless of which Road or Class. The Hudsons (favored by the CP over the Northerns for some reason) are a strong 2nd.

ASIDE - Sorry, I totally disagree (and Santa Fe management agrees with me) the Santa Fe 3700 class is in no way shape or form the "best" Northern.
 
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What do you mean by "best"? Gross tons per train mile, Maintenance costs per train mile, Revenue per ton, top speed, tractive effort, most horsepower?
 
Well said, Iron Horseman.
AND Let's not forget the Frisco 4500's.
They were the best in my little world.
 
Iron Horseman said:
I do strongly contend that the Northerns were the over all finest class of locomotive to grace the American rails regardless of which Road or Class. The Hudsons (favored by the CP over the Northerns for some reason) are a strong 2nd.
Click to expand...


I think that basicly sums it up....from a rational point of view. However I think we are missing the point.

Obviously such a debate isn't supposed to be rational. I say my favourite road's 4-8-4 is better than your favourite road's 4-8-4, you say no it's not and the brawl starts from there. Chairs fly, tables get smashed, people get thrown through windows, etc. That's what this question is really aiming at.:D
 
N&W J's could get up to 110+ mph (during the PRR testing), had the most tractive effort, was a clean design, and it had very high availability. The 70" drivers gave it great performance in the mountains.
 
Lets go with a style competition first, later I will do others like strongest and fastest. For style I'd go with SP GS-4 or the N&W J class.

Best regards,
Jim
 
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