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My track layout is nearly complete, but I'm faced with two issues before I can complete it. The scenery and the "pretty" stuff will come later. Here's my two problems I'm trying to figure out how to solve. This is in N-Scale.
1. I'm having electrical issues with the KATO diamond crossover. My electric feeder track is on one side (about 10 feet away). I tested trains and they ran fine between the feeder and the crossover track. Then they stop in the middle of the crossover and apparently there's no power beyond the mid-point of the crossover. All 4 switches are aligned properly for a run-through, with no crossing over at all. I'm not sure why there's no power beyond. Is there a safe way to fix this? I don't want to risk crossing wires or anything that would fry my locomotives or delicate trackside electronics like signals and the switch motors.
You can see the crossover here and the feeder + the electric controllers in the distance on the left. You can see where my 3 levels are that I talked about in my "Hey I'm new here" thread.
2. I'm trying to figure out how to make a winding ramp that descends from about 5 1/2 inches to ground level. I'm going by the "1/4 inch height every 9 - 10 inches (each KATO track section)". I'm not sure how that translates into grade. What's a good grade / slope for N-scale?
I appreciate any and all feedback you guys will be able to give me.
A 1 in rise for 2 ft run is 1/(2*12) = 1/24 = 0.041, x100 = 4.1%
Keep the units the same, convert all to inches then divide the rise by the run and multiply by 100 to get %.
Is that grade the same for G, O, HO, N, and Z scales, or does the model scale change the grade, considering HO is half the size of O, and N is half the size of HO? Is a 4% grade for a O train across the same distance equal a 2% grade for a HO, and 1% grade for a N train?
That is where I get confused on figuring out proper grade %'s.
Also, assuming I go by 1/4" rise / descent per 9 3/4" section of track (size of each KATO Uni-track section for N-scale), is that grade too steep or is it acceptable? I'm trying to figure out a good grade for the long S ramp (12 feet minimum if straightened out). I can draw a diagram and post it here if it'll help you guys.
I'm also considering re-doing all my support pillars. Right now the second level's clearance is about 3" and the 3rd level's clearance is 5", plus 1/2" inch height of the plywood itself. If I reduced the height by 1" so that the clearance is 2" for the 2nd level and 4" for the 3rd level. would that work better or not?
I know these are a lot of questions, but this 3 level design has been a kind of PITA to engineer so that the trains can run with enough clearance and without grades too steep that the trains get stuck going uphill. Much more "must be perfect" complex than all my older layouts.
The calculation and definition of Grade is the same regardless of scale. It is the same for highways and full scale trains. As I showed with the equation Grade in percent is the Rise divided by the Run times 100. This is the same regardless of the units used (rise and run units must be the same, both in inch or feet or miles, etc).
Now the 'recommended grade' can change depending what what needs to move up the grade. For full scale trains, a heavy freight main line would have a much smaller grade than a logging RR. This same idea applies to our models.
The greater the grade the less weight the loco can pull. On larger grades one can either decrease the load (less cars pulled) or add a 'helper' loco, like is done on Horseshoe Curve west of Altoona, PA.
What's the recommended grade % for prototypical freight consists? Considering that I have 100 feet of continuous mainline track, and I read somewhere that a normal 1 mile long freight train would be approximately 33 feet long in N scale, and I'm assuming that's roughly equal to 100 double stack cars. I'm assuming because I have yet to buy the double stackers, but that's my next big purchase in terms of rolling stock.
I remember doing an experiment with my KATO UP locomotives. One locomotive could pull about roughly 50 cars on its own (all the cars I had when I was doing that test) on a flat surface. Considering I have 4 UP locomotives, would it be reasonable to expect normal operation on a 4% grade using 4 locomotives to pull 25 cars? 50 cars? 100 cars?
I also have a few different passenger trains. The full Morning Daylight consist is 20 cars, pulled by the GS 4-8-4 locomotive, and I have 12 car Nozomi trains, and a 15 car "extended" Amtrak Superliner consist usually pulled by 3 P42's. How would these stack up on a 4% grade?
Again, I have never done ramps or grades before. All my past layouts were simple flat ones. This is all new to me.
I can not give any specifics as to what will pull what on grades. There are just too many variables.
I have run experiments to measure the grade my locos will pull alone and with heavily weighted hoppers (filled with lead).
For my experiment I use two 3 foot pieces of flex track tacked to a 1x6 x 8ft. Then put blocks under one end to create different grades to try the locos on. The largest grade where the drivers did not slip (spin) I considered that locos max grade. Then repeated with the heavily load hoppers (four equaled about 10 NMRA weight cars).
When doing your layout remember that the track can not go from level to a grade directly. It must transition into the grade. Therefore you need a longer run than a simple calculation to get a specified rise. Look (search) the other sub-forums here for more about all this.
Thanks for the suggestion, Waltr. As I'm a newcomer to these forums (signed up yesterday) and I don't know anyone else in real life who is a model railroader or has experience doing it. You guys can teach me a lot, and can help with suggestions and tips, and help me optimize my layout. I appreciate your patience as I ask these questions, and I definitely will check out the sub-forums.
Are there any good threads or tips on making curved ramps? That's the biggest problem I have so far. I can raise / lower the height of my platform levels (2nd and 3rd levels) to reduce grade % if needed.
That brings me to another question. What's the best clearance for N-scale using KATO Unitrack? What's the tallest N-scale rolling stock? The Unitrack is 1/4" high from base to the top of the rails. I have never done any tunnels or "underground" stuff before. I thought 3" clearance would be good, but if I can bring it down lower to help the grade %, that would be great.
This spec's clearances and many other dimensions. The NMRA Gauge is highly recommended for checking. It can be bought from many train stores online.
Don't think of a grade as a ramp but as the graded right of way in which the roadbed and track is laid. I like using plywood cut to the width of the roadbed base. This plywood will bend but allow a transition from level into the grade. Foam is a good base for the plywood that can be carved and sanded to get the require grade.
My build thread is here: http://www.modelrailroadforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27884
and shows how I created the grades. With Kato track you could glue the track directly to the foam with a latex caulk (there are a number of thread on just this topic).
Just because you are modeling in N scale do look at the layout build threads of the other scales. Many construction techniques are the same.
I tooka look at the NMRA clearances on the S-7 PDF and the "Modern" portal is about 1 3/4". What the PDF doesn't say is whether that 1 3/4" height counts the track height or only counts the maximum train car height without the track? I ask because I'm not sure if the proper clearance using NMRA would be 1 3/4" or 2" with KATO track as it's 1/4" high itself.
I'm new to model railroading standards like the NMRA. In just one day here, I've learned just as much from this forum that I've learned over the past 10 years on my own.
If you look carefully at the S-7 PDF, you will see that all heights are measured from the top of the rail. This is clearly stated right on the diagrams. By using the top of the rail as the reference point, the NMRA standard can be used for any type of track, no matter how high the track is.
From the table, the correct "modern" clearance height for N-scale (dimension H in the diagram) is 1 23/32" above the top of the rails. That's a bit less than the 1 3/4" you mentioned.
I was a bit confused by the diagrams because it had 3 different heights. The small height at the bottom, the middle height, and the other small height at the top. Again, I'm new to NMRA resources, so please bear with me as I learn the nuances of it.
I tend to round up to the nearest 1/8 inch when I build stuff in N scale because my measuring tape and regular rulers smallest fractions are 1/16.
