Just started work on my layout
- Thread starter Nucular
- Start date
Whoa nelly! Before you start getting grandiose ideas of running 1000 trains at once, I am afraid I have to do what no one else has and "burst your bubble".
The amp output of a DCC controller {plus any boosters} determines HOW MANY locos you can run...NOT what the "maximum" the system can handle WITH ALL THE RIGHT BOOSTERS TO DO SO.
Most NEW DCC locos, for instance Bachmann DCC OnBoard locos, can draw about a 1/2 amp or so, some drawing ONE AMP. OLDER locos {Athearn Blue boxes for example} DRAW WAY MORE than half or one amp. A SYSTEM'S LISTING FOR # of LOCOS it can run is with the system MAXED OUT WITH BOOSTERS ADDED!!! OR it simply states "you can program up to 9999 locos"- BUT DOES NOT MEAN YOU CAN RUN 9999 LOCOS!!!!! you can NAME and Program them, but not necessarily run them all at once!!!
NOW YOur BAchamann EZ Command system {which I personally have}:
here are some q&As from Bachmann about it:
Q - "Can I use 2 or more EZ Command units to have more than 10 trains on the layout at once?"
A - NO! if EZ Command doesn’t run enough trains for you maybe think about a bigger DCC setup.
Q - "How many trains can run at once?"
A - EZ Command has a 1 amp power supply which is enough for 3 locomotives. EZ Command will allow double heading by allocating the same address to each locomotive (Example A/B F series set or two GP40's) Remember that only one train is under control and that the others are continuing to run in accordance with the last instruction they were given (running as a 'background' train).
Keep in mind if you have ONE 2 loco consits running, you can only run 1 ADDITIONAL loco period.
Q- "can I run passenger trains with coach lights"?
A- Coach lights — if rolling stock is fitted with lights the constant voltage on the track means that they will be illuminated at all times. However, remember to include the current draw against the 1 amp total power supply — each bulb will draw about 80 milliamps.
Q - "Is the EZ Command System Expandable?"
A- There is a separate 5 amp booster for the EZ Command system that can increase the number of locos you can run at once. It is available separately.
-here is a link to a online e-tailer that has the 5amp booster:
http://www.wholesaletrains.com/Detail.asp?Scale=HO&Item=RGBVCW&ID=200425957
Also...You CAN program 2 engines on one address # BUT unless they are a pair to run together {A/B set, or two GP40s, or a GP35 and a GP40 Together} you CANNOT have BOTH locos on the same block of layout at the same time!!!
ALso, hte #10 program spot will operate a DC loco IF the appropriate Bachmann DC controller is attached to the EZ C system, and it controls the on/off of loco lighting. SO I DON'T USE IT AS A PROGRAM SLOT. SO I can only have 18 locos programmed in ...but MIND YOU I DON'T have the BOOSTER so I can only run 3 locos total!!!
ALSO- the EZ C system DOES Not "do" sound selections like selecting one of 20 different horn or bells ..if a sound loco runs it will draw 1 amp or more and quickly drain the EZ C's abilities.
Mind you - I have a small layout and don't run more than 2-3 locos anyway {all 13 are Bachmann DCC OnBoard locos} and I LOVE my EZ C!!! I will get the 5 amp booster sooner or later,so I can run more locos when i can expand my layout later. I will have to buy soon as it may not be available later on as Bachmann's new Dynamis DCC system is a newer model. With the 5 amp booster, though and the 1 amp the system provides, that COULD mean I could run 12 locos at once if they only draw a 1/2 amp each and have no lighted passenger cars. YOu CAN get an additional 5 amp booster {1 amp system controller, plus 1 5amp booster plus another 5amp booster and run up to 22 locos.
I like the ease of use of the EZ C......it is simple and easy to use..the only thing I don't like is that it only program 2 digit addresses. I would like to program in the 4 digit "name" assigned to my loco on it's side for easier identification. But if you spell out in tiny letters on the Bachmann given "'listing sheet" for each number you can easily identify teh proper loco.
Now onto another system you asked about:
If you go with the Digitrax Zephyr...move up to the Digitrax Zephyr Xtra {spelled right}. It has 3 amps to work with, which is 1 amp more than the older plain Digitrax Zephyr system, and 2 amps more than the Bachmann EZ Command Without a booster. That means you can run up to 6 1/2 amp draw locos on the system. It also programs in 4 digit addresses and does have sound capabilities. {I personally don't like sound- to tinny and bothers my ears}
If I were NOT to get the Bachmann booster, I would get the Xtra myself.
I hope this clears up a few things for you and doesn't confuse you.
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LotoQuestions
Member
Zephyr limits
Zephyr is not a current product - it is now Zephyr Xtra and is limited to 20 concurrent operating addresses.
take care ,,, ken
Zephyr is not a current product - it is now Zephyr Xtra and is limited to 20 concurrent operating addresses.
take care ,,, ken
That appears so, weird that they have the old one still on their website. At least it comes up in google.
Anyhow I noticed that you can put two Zephyr Xtra's together, one acting like a power booster. Is it possible to add a 3rd one together? Otherwise I do have the power ability for tons of blocks and engines. My small 1500 square foot house, has 400 amp power service to it, and I have been told by ComEd that all power upgrades are free, and that I could go for 600 or 800 amp power service, so I am not limited by power.
I am more into the Zephyr right now, I am just a little confused on the boosters and how to get more power into the layout.
LotoQuestions
Member
Zephyr combined or booster
Zephyr combined is only sort of a kludge so one is not left sitting idle if you happen to have 2 for some reason, it doesn't change any control limitations - only adds power. Three is not an option as far as I know.
Use a proper booster or throttle.
take care ,,,, ken
Zephyr combined is only sort of a kludge so one is not left sitting idle if you happen to have 2 for some reason, it doesn't change any control limitations - only adds power. Three is not an option as far as I know.
Use a proper booster or throttle.
take care ,,,, ken
Shoneburger
New Member
Power supply
Also , Your command station and Booster(s) all have their own Power supply . So if you have one command station and two boosters you will need three power supplies . Always use the one the manufacturer recommends .
Also , Your command station and Booster(s) all have their own Power supply . So if you have one command station and two boosters you will need three power supplies . Always use the one the manufacturer recommends .
Ken G Price
Member
Nucular, It sounds like you're trying to reinvent the wheel. Certain things work and certain things don't.
The people giving you advice have learned from their mistakes and others success so you don't have to make those same mistakes.
Spend money on successes, not on redoing.
Well, that's about all I've got.
The people giving you advice have learned from their mistakes and others success so you don't have to make those same mistakes.
Spend money on successes, not on redoing.
Well, that's about all I've got.
Well right now I am looking for something with enough power, so that I can run everything with no problem. Hence why I liked the idea of being able to connect two together for more power.
I am going to email the company that makes them, and ask if you could put more than 2 together, or with just a 5 amp booster which I have seen on their website.
@Ken G Price: I am taking people's advice, but that is what it is advice. Everyone has a system that works for them, that is why there are so many DCC systems out there and ways of doing things. I am just on the search for finding something to work for me.
Selector
Well-Known Member
I have only read the last five or six posts, so I may have misunderstood the nature of this discussion.
To run multiple motors, you need the amperage to run them. As amperage demands rise in any one circuit, you must also raise the voltage. To run 1000 1 amp motors you would need 1000+ amps, and that would exceed the nominal input to a typical residence. Even if you could get that much amperage into your home, the comensurate voltage to support that amperage would be in the range of 8000 volts.
I get the sense we are talking past each other. Some DCC systems allow storage of many hundreds of individual locomotive addresses. They can't run them all at once. For example, the DT400 throttles that Digitrax sells/sold, have a maximum stack of 20 addresses, after which some must be dispatched or purged from the stack. But you could run those 20 locomotives concurrently with the 5 amp power supply...probably using the full five amps, too. It would be a real test for the system, though, and I would not advise it. It would keep that power supply very hot, and that can't be a good thing.
You could break a very large layout into multiple power districts, each with its own 5-8 amp power supply and signal booster for the DCC signal. It would really add to the cost, and unless you had a bunch of friends to help, or a sophisticated computer programme, you would not be able to run more than about three trains effectively.
To run multiple motors, you need the amperage to run them. As amperage demands rise in any one circuit, you must also raise the voltage. To run 1000 1 amp motors you would need 1000+ amps, and that would exceed the nominal input to a typical residence. Even if you could get that much amperage into your home, the comensurate voltage to support that amperage would be in the range of 8000 volts.
I get the sense we are talking past each other. Some DCC systems allow storage of many hundreds of individual locomotive addresses. They can't run them all at once. For example, the DT400 throttles that Digitrax sells/sold, have a maximum stack of 20 addresses, after which some must be dispatched or purged from the stack. But you could run those 20 locomotives concurrently with the 5 amp power supply...probably using the full five amps, too. It would be a real test for the system, though, and I would not advise it. It would keep that power supply very hot, and that can't be a good thing.
You could break a very large layout into multiple power districts, each with its own 5-8 amp power supply and signal booster for the DCC signal. It would really add to the cost, and unless you had a bunch of friends to help, or a sophisticated computer programme, you would not be able to run more than about three trains effectively.
bn-1000
Member
Well, I've used a couple of Zephyrs and became so frustrated with them I got rid of them. Absolutely hated them in the end. In my opinion they are difficult to program with their 4-digit, 7-segment LED displays. In fact I'll go so far as to say they are utterly useless for much more than a loop layout. If you want to do any level of decent programming and loco control then steer clear of the Zephyr, no matter how many you can hook up together. Save your money for a better system.
I switched to NCE Power Cab, added boosters, throttles at each end of the layout and never looked back. These systems (as well as the Digitrax Empire Builders) are expandable and offer enough features to see you out.
Nucular, I'm sure your theory will work but I would seriously look at either the Digitrax's Empire Builder or NCE's Pro series as viable options.
Nucular, have you actually used a Zephyr? or any other system?
I strongly encourage you to visit some layouts and seek some practical experience with using these systems. Get along to a local group or visit a LHS that has a layout. Hold the hand controller, program a loco with them. That will go a long way to helping you decide on the system which will suit your layout. If you end up doing this, I will bet you whole outlook on DCC systems will be different.
Exactly. Will you alone be operating you layout? If so, how many locos would you plan on running simultaneously? Please just think of the logistics of keeping all locos running and operating handsets/controllers. Remember you want to enjoy your time at the layout, not getting flustered while attempting to run 10, 20 - however many locos at any one time.
I personally think you are looking too deep into the DCC concept but it is all a learning curve.
My 2 cents.
Regards,
I switched to NCE Power Cab, added boosters, throttles at each end of the layout and never looked back. These systems (as well as the Digitrax Empire Builders) are expandable and offer enough features to see you out.
Nucular, I'm sure your theory will work but I would seriously look at either the Digitrax's Empire Builder or NCE's Pro series as viable options.
Nucular, have you actually used a Zephyr? or any other system?
I strongly encourage you to visit some layouts and seek some practical experience with using these systems. Get along to a local group or visit a LHS that has a layout. Hold the hand controller, program a loco with them. That will go a long way to helping you decide on the system which will suit your layout. If you end up doing this, I will bet you whole outlook on DCC systems will be different.
Exactly. Will you alone be operating you layout? If so, how many locos would you plan on running simultaneously? Please just think of the logistics of keeping all locos running and operating handsets/controllers. Remember you want to enjoy your time at the layout, not getting flustered while attempting to run 10, 20 - however many locos at any one time.
I personally think you are looking too deep into the DCC concept but it is all a learning curve.
My 2 cents.
Regards,
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Don't be so quick to dismiss what Ken Price has said.
I quoted you some quotes from Bachmann itself on it's EZ C. NOT MY ADVICE -THEIR hard and true facts to avoid burning out their system, leaving you scratching your head and wondering what went wrong and thinking it a piece of junk when YOU HAVE MISUSED THEIR PRODUCT.
You are ready to jump in head first into a pool with no water in it the way you are going. You seem disappointed that you may not be able to run more than 20 locos when you don't even yet know how to run one single loco train on DCC. It appears You are building a rather large layout without knowing about HOW DCC works, the WAY it works, and what it takes to RUN a DCC layout. You are setting yourself up for failure.
There ARE different DCC systems, but the basic rules of DCC still apply.
You need the amperage to operate a loco or as many locos as the system will handle. AS Selector {Crandell} has pointed out you do not want to run at full capacity and still BURN IT OUT by MAXING IT OUT ALL THE TIME.ALso as he pointed out you need voltage too.
ANd you have not even yet mentioned wiring up your whole layout! That is a whole 'nother story! DCC wiring can be simpler than DC wiring, but still wiring is wiring to be sure all your locos get all the correct volt,amp and current digitial signals they need to traverse the layout.
If you don't heed the advice you have been given and/or follow the MANUFACTURERS FACTS on operating a system successfully, you will likely burn out engines or the system, scratch your head, wonder what went wrong, become disenchanted with the hobby, and be very dissatisfied with your whole experience. We are trying to help you avoid that. Yo almost sound like you don't WANT advice and will do what you are gonna do and see how it comes out anyway. If that is the case, you don't need to ask anyone anything here then since you know it all already just from reading the descriptions of the POTENTIAL a system can operate at adn will do as you please.
WHat you read in descriptions about a system is the MAXIMUM you can do with it IF you have all the right equipment. It's like a car ad...ONLY the top line model can do all the things they advertise, but the bottom end model is just basic transport!
Also different DCC systems have different features. SOund locos have different sound features...like 20 different diesel horn sounds to choose from or 20 different bells for a steamer. The features offered are different but the basics of current, voltage, amperage stay the same regardless of what DCC system you use to SUCCESSFULLY OPERATE A LAYOUT. It is justthat the EZ C system is limited in not being about to select one of those 20 different horns sounds as you choosen sound.
GET yourself a few books and READ READ READ on: DCC Operation, DCC WIring, DCC system comparisons, and DCC Principles - all titles available from Model Railroader Magazine's books collection. {FOund at the tool bar "shop" in the gray and the black tool bars on the Model RailRoader Magazine's site, and in Hobby shops everywhere.
Like here:
http://www.kalmbachstore.com/modeltrains-railroading-model-railroading-books-wiring-electronics.html
Or readf here for a good tutorial on systems and DCC:
http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips.htm
good luck in your endeavors. ANd ENJOY the hobby.
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Just a note, I did not start this thread with a question or concern. I just mentioned what I was doing, and thought that it would be nice to share the progress. Those assuming that I have been asking for advice are vastly mistaken unless it is in regards to Digitrax and the Zephyr.
@Selector
In all due respect just because the booster puts out 5 amps of power does not necessarily mean that it requires 5 amps of AC power from the electric company. You have to remember that the booster is taking in AC power and converting it to 12V DC power. For all I know the booster is only using 3 amps of AC power at 120 volts, and is converting it to 5 amps of 12V DC.
@bn-1000
According to the Digitrax website, all of their systems are expandable and that includes the Zephyr models. I have just emailed their technical support department and am waiting on an answer to my question about combining boosters with the Zephyr's. So I am going to reserve judgment until I get an answer from Digitrax. After all if people on this site are not sure if you can expand the system, then they are not in a legitimate position to offer advice as to if it will work or not. Their only response can be one of "I do not know".
As for visiting layouts, they do not exist within my area. In the Chicago land area, there is one club that I know of, and to my knowledge from visiting that place, it does not use DCC. It mainly consists of old people. In addition, I would never join a club due to the fact that you have to pay dues, and there is no real benefit. Almost all of the answers to my questions are online, if not by someone instead by the company that offers the product. I read up on the manuals of the products and if something is not in there, I ask the company.
As for how many trains I can run. I have controlled up to 8 trains at once with regular DC layouts as a child. It honestly is not that hard to just get the trains to the right spots on the layout, set the speed, and sit back and watch the trains go by. I never have had a problem in adjusting their speed, direction, or anything else while operating that many trains at once.
@galaxy
First how many people honestly use any product 100% the way the company suggests it to be used? Examples state otherwise to the contrary. Look at cars, people change engines, transmissions, go longer than what the recommended oil change rate is. People modify their computers by changing out video cards and sound cards. Furthermore, the fact remains that this is a hobby, and a hobby is supposed to be fun. If I cannot experiment and do things the way I think I want them to work, then what is the point? I machine wash wool pants even though the tag on it states “Dry Clean” only. From someone not knowing a thing about dry cleaning or laundry, I manage to successfully machine wash my wool pants with water and detergent. I have been to thousands of places where things are improvised and modified to do a particular job. I am sure that none of those are in accordance with what the manufacture recommends.
As for burning out equipment, all modern systems are UL approved, otherwise I would not purchase them. Hence they are safe to use, and should work at the max capacity. There is no problem in using electronics at full capacity, otherwise why buy the better machine if you are not going to use the capacity it provides.
I have always gone into things without knowing everything about them. I have done it knowing nothing, and yet I always manage to excel in it and beat out those wasting their time reading books and trying to figure something out that can be done better by just doing it. I have self taught myself many things such as Javascript, XML, XSLT, ASP, HTML, AutoCAD, CSS, Linux, welding, and general machining. I have had no formal training in those areas, not to mention other fields such as general retail experience or managing skills, yet when the United States Postal Service put me in as a Postmaster Relief (aka vice president) I increased stamp sales, and cut operating costs for the post office. No experience and no training, and yet I did an excellent job. The postmaster is always happy to recommend me to companies if I want to apply for a job somewhere.
@Selector
In all due respect just because the booster puts out 5 amps of power does not necessarily mean that it requires 5 amps of AC power from the electric company. You have to remember that the booster is taking in AC power and converting it to 12V DC power. For all I know the booster is only using 3 amps of AC power at 120 volts, and is converting it to 5 amps of 12V DC.
@bn-1000
According to the Digitrax website, all of their systems are expandable and that includes the Zephyr models. I have just emailed their technical support department and am waiting on an answer to my question about combining boosters with the Zephyr's. So I am going to reserve judgment until I get an answer from Digitrax. After all if people on this site are not sure if you can expand the system, then they are not in a legitimate position to offer advice as to if it will work or not. Their only response can be one of "I do not know".
As for visiting layouts, they do not exist within my area. In the Chicago land area, there is one club that I know of, and to my knowledge from visiting that place, it does not use DCC. It mainly consists of old people. In addition, I would never join a club due to the fact that you have to pay dues, and there is no real benefit. Almost all of the answers to my questions are online, if not by someone instead by the company that offers the product. I read up on the manuals of the products and if something is not in there, I ask the company.
As for how many trains I can run. I have controlled up to 8 trains at once with regular DC layouts as a child. It honestly is not that hard to just get the trains to the right spots on the layout, set the speed, and sit back and watch the trains go by. I never have had a problem in adjusting their speed, direction, or anything else while operating that many trains at once.
@galaxy
First how many people honestly use any product 100% the way the company suggests it to be used? Examples state otherwise to the contrary. Look at cars, people change engines, transmissions, go longer than what the recommended oil change rate is. People modify their computers by changing out video cards and sound cards. Furthermore, the fact remains that this is a hobby, and a hobby is supposed to be fun. If I cannot experiment and do things the way I think I want them to work, then what is the point? I machine wash wool pants even though the tag on it states “Dry Clean” only. From someone not knowing a thing about dry cleaning or laundry, I manage to successfully machine wash my wool pants with water and detergent. I have been to thousands of places where things are improvised and modified to do a particular job. I am sure that none of those are in accordance with what the manufacture recommends.
As for burning out equipment, all modern systems are UL approved, otherwise I would not purchase them. Hence they are safe to use, and should work at the max capacity. There is no problem in using electronics at full capacity, otherwise why buy the better machine if you are not going to use the capacity it provides.
I have always gone into things without knowing everything about them. I have done it knowing nothing, and yet I always manage to excel in it and beat out those wasting their time reading books and trying to figure something out that can be done better by just doing it. I have self taught myself many things such as Javascript, XML, XSLT, ASP, HTML, AutoCAD, CSS, Linux, welding, and general machining. I have had no formal training in those areas, not to mention other fields such as general retail experience or managing skills, yet when the United States Postal Service put me in as a Postmaster Relief (aka vice president) I increased stamp sales, and cut operating costs for the post office. No experience and no training, and yet I did an excellent job. The postmaster is always happy to recommend me to companies if I want to apply for a job somewhere.
bn-1000
Member
Hi Nucular,
Firstly, you may not have "asked" for advice however almost every reply has been offering assistance with nothing but the very best of intentions, from people who have been down the same path and learned from mistakes. These same people are a wonderful resource and should not be dismissed.
Just on a side note, I do find your comment regarding your local club "...mainly consists of old people" perhaps a tad inappropriate.
However you have pretty much mapped out exactly what you require, so given that you do not want any further advice and you are simply reporting on your construction progress, I will not interject with anymore advice. Good luck with it and I sincerely hope you end up with the layout of your dreams.
Regards,
Firstly, you may not have "asked" for advice however almost every reply has been offering assistance with nothing but the very best of intentions, from people who have been down the same path and learned from mistakes. These same people are a wonderful resource and should not be dismissed.
Just on a side note, I do find your comment regarding your local club "...mainly consists of old people" perhaps a tad inappropriate.
However you have pretty much mapped out exactly what you require, so given that you do not want any further advice and you are simply reporting on your construction progress, I will not interject with anymore advice. Good luck with it and I sincerely hope you end up with the layout of your dreams.
Regards,
LotoQuestions
Member
I am reminded
I am reminded of the horse and water ..........
"You can lead the horse but ..........."
Good luck Nucular ... nice table , hope the rest works out as well.
Ken (back to playing with my Zephyr)
I am reminded of the horse and water ..........
"You can lead the horse but ..........."
Good luck Nucular ... nice table , hope the rest works out as well.
Ken (back to playing with my Zephyr)
Just watch these videos to find out. I think it does. There are function keys in it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAin_nEMHlY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kj-03Lrh3EU&feature=related
According to video #2, you hit the function button, and it can play sounds. It explains it right around the 2 mintue mark in the second video link. Those that claim that it cannot, have not obviously looked into it that much.
Nucular, I do see that your thread started off as a "here is what i am doing".
When we see problems or erronious or misinterpreted information, we want to correct it, naturally, based on our knowledge, expertise, "trial and error", failures and information we have read.
Some guys on here have layouts that would DWARF your "little" steel and aluminum layout.
However, I could swear you had a post that asked questions about the EZ Command system AS well as a thread asking about the Zephyr too. Perhaps one got erased. The old Zephyr units are still out there and for sale so they are still listed. That is why you find them online listings! IIRC they only came out the Xtra this spring {or was it Christmas time} so It is out there too, but new and will replace the regular 2 amp zephyr altogether.
Your initial comments about the EZ Command were somewhat misleading at best. What you posted there about it being simple to use is correct. If you want to run 3 locos only. But you idea of coupling 3 of them together to run more trains was in error. SO I psoted the Bachmann's Q &As that Bachmann themselves tells you you cannot use 2 controlers to control twice as many trains like you were suggesting-so I quoted form their website about THAT subject to give you the CORRECT info straight form the manufacturer.Obvioulsy if you can't use 2 , you can't use 3!
When ever a topic comes up about DCC systems there are bound to be DCC "flame wars" as everyone has their opinion/experience with one or more systems. ANd the system they favor. You ignited it here, and definitely after asking about the Zephyr.
Again, all cars are basic transportation, but some do it differently than others.
They all do the SAME thing, but in a different way, with options.
We offer years of experience and mishaps, and successes on these forums, learned and well read. You can take it or leave it.
As Ken Price said, we are offering you advice, and perhaps heeding some of it as it was given freely and with great care to help educate you on what you may not already know.
Enjoy your hobby your way, as that seems to top anything any one has ever done or any manufacturers recommend.
When we see problems or erronious or misinterpreted information, we want to correct it, naturally, based on our knowledge, expertise, "trial and error", failures and information we have read.
Some guys on here have layouts that would DWARF your "little" steel and aluminum layout.
However, I could swear you had a post that asked questions about the EZ Command system AS well as a thread asking about the Zephyr too. Perhaps one got erased. The old Zephyr units are still out there and for sale so they are still listed. That is why you find them online listings! IIRC they only came out the Xtra this spring {or was it Christmas time} so It is out there too, but new and will replace the regular 2 amp zephyr altogether.
Your initial comments about the EZ Command were somewhat misleading at best. What you posted there about it being simple to use is correct. If you want to run 3 locos only. But you idea of coupling 3 of them together to run more trains was in error. SO I psoted the Bachmann's Q &As that Bachmann themselves tells you you cannot use 2 controlers to control twice as many trains like you were suggesting-so I quoted form their website about THAT subject to give you the CORRECT info straight form the manufacturer.Obvioulsy if you can't use 2 , you can't use 3!
When ever a topic comes up about DCC systems there are bound to be DCC "flame wars" as everyone has their opinion/experience with one or more systems. ANd the system they favor. You ignited it here, and definitely after asking about the Zephyr.
Again, all cars are basic transportation, but some do it differently than others.
They all do the SAME thing, but in a different way, with options.
We offer years of experience and mishaps, and successes on these forums, learned and well read. You can take it or leave it.
As Ken Price said, we are offering you advice, and perhaps heeding some of it as it was given freely and with great care to help educate you on what you may not already know.
Enjoy your hobby your way, as that seems to top anything any one has ever done or any manufacturers recommend.
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What I said Was..it doesn't allow you to opt which of 20 horn sounds you want, or 20 bell sounds you want/it will run on factiry preset sounds. There are only a few sound control presets at 1-10, but a sound loco may have 148 sound options. You wont be able to access all of them with the EZ C..just the first 10 you CAN control...each sound loco should have a listing of the funtions of sound found at each of the assigned number. I also said I don't "do" sound by preference as I find it to tinny and hurts my ears. MAny will argue over the individual sounds of a certain DCC circuit board, or of the speaker itself.
Second I think this can answer your other question. I think you could run two sound locos and be fine, BUT NO OTHER LOCOS, SOund locos draw more amps to run than non sound ones. If you want to run say 6 sound equiped On teh EZ C I would suggest you get the booster. Remember, the EZ C station has only 1 amp-usually enough to run 3 non sound locos{1/2 amp or less each} , but though in sound locos and it may be higher amp usage that the allowable 1 amp the controller provides.
The number one button may control factory preset bell, button two the factory prest horn, for example. #10 button always controls the lights on the loco. #7 may be air hiss.
SO yes, sound can be runon the EZ C, you won't have accessto all sounds, and sound locos draw more apms than nonsound.
Hope this helps?
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Galaxy I have yet to my knowledge ask any questions about EZ Command. There might have been a misunderstanding somewhere, but no questions were asked about it.
Further, you can use two EZ Command systems on one layout. I never stated about being able to control twice the number of trains all at once. (Which you could if did not connect all the loops/lines together.) Other than that, my yard was just going to be a fancy way of being able to program the engine decoders before they were moved onto the track. Hence, if one train moves of, another can take its place. I admit at the beginning I might not have explained it so clearly, but it is possible. You can still only control up to 10, but you could rotate out trains.
As for the Zephyr, why does anyone care which system I pick? Honestly, the individual that suggested that I look into the Zephyr more was a good person. I would have to look back to see who suggested it, but I think regardless it became apparent that I took their advice and was following up on it. I looked at other systems and they did not appeal to me as much as the Zephyr. That is one thing about advice. I cannot take it all or use it all. First life is too short, and second it is up to my judgment, rather the advice is worth anything to me or not. That is my prerogative. If I just did whatever someone told me to do, I would never get what I want. If you have a hard time about people not taking your advice all the time, then perhaps you need to reconsider yourself.
I never stated that I was smarter or better than anyone. If you look back, you will not find any such comments. Of course, I will take offense to someone who tells me that I cannot do something such as being able to run more than 3 trains. I do not go around telling people that they cannot do something. Attacking my abilities really has nothing to do in regards to the whole thread. There is no relevance in attacking or even bring up a person's abilities.
If by Ken you mean LotoQuestions, I have nothing against him. His advice was not to be so turned off by the look of DCC and to perhaps look into it a little more. Well when I got some free time I did look into it a little more. He did say that I had to nor did he attack any of my abilities or ideas. He just basically asked me to reconsider looking at other systems. I found that advice to have been conducted in a nice peaceful calm manner.
About the name I chose for the forum, really has nothing to do with this thread at all. I do not see how it even connects in any way to model railroading in regards to layout building or DCC. I spell it “Nucular” because it is in honor of my best friend from High School. Back in High School, my friend and I enjoyed playing a few free computer games, and the name "nuclear" was already taken, so he suggest I take on the spelling of "nucular". Well the name kind of grew on me, and over the years, my best friend had to deal with the fact that he did not have mother, his dad dying, and the fact that he got kicked out and put on the street by his aunt at the age of 18. At that time I was studying nuclear engineering at the University of Missouri-Rolla, which is now called Missouri S&T. Him and I would always joke about the spelling and it kept his spirits up. Since then it is kind of an honorary thing, and he likes to hear about it every time I get the change to use "nucular". Of course the story is move detailed then that, but that is the general overview. And now that he is getting married, I was asked to stand up for his wedding and he is putting the word "nucular" somewhere in his wedding. As to what it is exactly, I will find out with time.
Further, you can use two EZ Command systems on one layout. I never stated about being able to control twice the number of trains all at once. (Which you could if did not connect all the loops/lines together.) Other than that, my yard was just going to be a fancy way of being able to program the engine decoders before they were moved onto the track. Hence, if one train moves of, another can take its place. I admit at the beginning I might not have explained it so clearly, but it is possible. You can still only control up to 10, but you could rotate out trains.
As for the Zephyr, why does anyone care which system I pick? Honestly, the individual that suggested that I look into the Zephyr more was a good person. I would have to look back to see who suggested it, but I think regardless it became apparent that I took their advice and was following up on it. I looked at other systems and they did not appeal to me as much as the Zephyr. That is one thing about advice. I cannot take it all or use it all. First life is too short, and second it is up to my judgment, rather the advice is worth anything to me or not. That is my prerogative. If I just did whatever someone told me to do, I would never get what I want. If you have a hard time about people not taking your advice all the time, then perhaps you need to reconsider yourself.
I never stated that I was smarter or better than anyone. If you look back, you will not find any such comments. Of course, I will take offense to someone who tells me that I cannot do something such as being able to run more than 3 trains. I do not go around telling people that they cannot do something. Attacking my abilities really has nothing to do in regards to the whole thread. There is no relevance in attacking or even bring up a person's abilities.
If by Ken you mean LotoQuestions, I have nothing against him. His advice was not to be so turned off by the look of DCC and to perhaps look into it a little more. Well when I got some free time I did look into it a little more. He did say that I had to nor did he attack any of my abilities or ideas. He just basically asked me to reconsider looking at other systems. I found that advice to have been conducted in a nice peaceful calm manner.
About the name I chose for the forum, really has nothing to do with this thread at all. I do not see how it even connects in any way to model railroading in regards to layout building or DCC. I spell it “Nucular” because it is in honor of my best friend from High School. Back in High School, my friend and I enjoyed playing a few free computer games, and the name "nuclear" was already taken, so he suggest I take on the spelling of "nucular". Well the name kind of grew on me, and over the years, my best friend had to deal with the fact that he did not have mother, his dad dying, and the fact that he got kicked out and put on the street by his aunt at the age of 18. At that time I was studying nuclear engineering at the University of Missouri-Rolla, which is now called Missouri S&T. Him and I would always joke about the spelling and it kept his spirits up. Since then it is kind of an honorary thing, and he likes to hear about it every time I get the change to use "nucular". Of course the story is move detailed then that, but that is the general overview. And now that he is getting married, I was asked to stand up for his wedding and he is putting the word "nucular" somewhere in his wedding. As to what it is exactly, I will find out with time.
Selector
Well-Known Member
Well, this went sideways quickly.
It is probably a cultural thing, but in my experience on toy train forums, we tend to do a lot of sharing and expression of good will. When we see that a person appears to have misunderstood something, or is going down what we know to be the wrong path, certainly a poor choice by way of engineering and physics, we jump in and caution the person. I think this is what was being offered here: expressions of good will, some cautions, and suggestions for another way of achieving what was understood to be an aim or a goal.
Power supplies are rated for a maximum output. They may only ever need half their rated output, but they are designed for more....but a defined safe upper limit. What happens on the rails is the variable that determines how much throughput, or usable amperage, the power supply will provide at any given moment. If it is a single small sound-equipped diesel pulling six box cars and a caboose on level track, it will be somewhere between 0.3 and 0.7 amps, depending on the ease of rolling of the cars and the efficiency of the drive. We were talking of a much larger number at one point, all working concurrently, and that figure was 1000. Taking the lower number of amps above, it still comes to 300 amps needed for pulling the trains behind the 1000 locomotives. My question would be as follows: will a 120 volt power supply with a DC conversion and output of 3 amps provide 100 times that amperage for more than about 10 seconds before it made a lot of smoke? Umm....no.
Secondly, at what outlet in a standard coded home would one expect to be able to draw 300 amps? Nowhere, not even boosted at the 240 volt circuits to the hot water heater and the kitchen stove.
It is probably a cultural thing, but in my experience on toy train forums, we tend to do a lot of sharing and expression of good will. When we see that a person appears to have misunderstood something, or is going down what we know to be the wrong path, certainly a poor choice by way of engineering and physics, we jump in and caution the person. I think this is what was being offered here: expressions of good will, some cautions, and suggestions for another way of achieving what was understood to be an aim or a goal.
Power supplies are rated for a maximum output. They may only ever need half their rated output, but they are designed for more....but a defined safe upper limit. What happens on the rails is the variable that determines how much throughput, or usable amperage, the power supply will provide at any given moment. If it is a single small sound-equipped diesel pulling six box cars and a caboose on level track, it will be somewhere between 0.3 and 0.7 amps, depending on the ease of rolling of the cars and the efficiency of the drive. We were talking of a much larger number at one point, all working concurrently, and that figure was 1000. Taking the lower number of amps above, it still comes to 300 amps needed for pulling the trains behind the 1000 locomotives. My question would be as follows: will a 120 volt power supply with a DC conversion and output of 3 amps provide 100 times that amperage for more than about 10 seconds before it made a lot of smoke? Umm....no.
Secondly, at what outlet in a standard coded home would one expect to be able to draw 300 amps? Nowhere, not even boosted at the 240 volt circuits to the hot water heater and the kitchen stove.
