What does this mean?

[wombat457]

Hi Guys,

I just ran my multi meter around the track and am getting readings all of the way around it; however, I am getting some fairly large differences in parts of the track. With my meter turned to the little Greek Omega Symbol I am getting readings of 2.5 - 2.9 around 90% of the track while in the remaining 10% of track I am getting reading at a fairly constant 4.8. All I can derive from these readings is that I at least have power to all of the track. What those readings mean is beyond me to the point where I don't know if they are good, bad or indifferent so if someone can interpret them for me, that would be great.

Also, just for fun, with the power to the track on I placed my exacto knife across both rails and nothing happened. I didn't loose power and the DT402 did not detect a short? Maybe time to finally connect my NCE Power Cab and 5 AMP Booster.

 

[D&J RailRoad]

Is your exacto knife handle coated with something?

 

[Iron Horseman]

Also, just for fun, with the power to the track on I placed my exacto knife across both rails and nothing happened. I didn't loose power and the DT402 did not detect a short? Maybe time to finally connect my NCE Power Cab and 5 AMP Booster.

The DCS100 should beep (4 times) and shut down with a short.

 

[wombat457]

You were checking the resistance. That is not a good test for track power. Set the meter to DC volts for traditional rail power and AC volts for DCC rail power. Fortunately, it sounds like your meter has protection from improper use when testing a voltage source and set to check resistance. If you were using DC power, the voltage will be set by the transformer throttle setting from 0-17 VDC for HO. Since you are using DCC, the voltage should be around 13+ VAC whenever the track power is on. The voltage should be fairly uniform between the rails anywhere on the layout, if everything is proper electrically. With DCC absolutely, the power protection circuitry should shut down power to the rails if there is short occurring. Without this shutdown, you can melt things with a DCC system. If it won't shutdown, then there is poor wiring, connections, or high resistance in the track.

Jerry, thanks for the information, but now I have another problem - there is nothing on the multi meter that says DC or AC Volts? What I have is as follows:

V, uA/A, mA/A, Omega Sign, Speaker Sign, Hz and EF.

I am assuming it is the V I should be using, right?

Is your exacto knife handle coated with something?

Not that I am aware of, it is a plain old plastic exacto slide type knife.

The DCS100 should beep (4 times) and shut down with a short.

That is what I thought too but it didn't happen.

 

[rzw0wr]

You meter may have the symbols like mine does.
~ or something like it for AC and = for DC.
Confusing hu.

I also had one meter that only had one voltage setting or button.
You had to select Ac or DC after you selected voltage.

 

[Mark R.]

There's a little booklet that comes with products like these (most guys assume it is just packing material) .... it's called a MANUAL !

Highly recommended reading for something like this - especially before you start sticking the probes into places where they shouldn't be with the wrong setting on your meter. If this is the same meter you posted a while back, it has a number of mult-functions on the same position on the dial. You should learn what they are and what they mean.

Good friend of mine has a universal response to this .... RTFM !

Mark.

 

[wombat457]

Jerry,

I set my meter to 'V' with the squiggly line on the left and 'v' on the right and am only getting a reading of 3.367 with the DCS 100 powered up. The only plus is that reading is constant all the way around the layout?

Now I am worried about the integrity of my track.

Okay, I did the 1/4 test and there seems to be a couple of places where the 1/4 wont cause a short. It seems as though those areas are between the frog end of the points and where the insulated joiners are. Every where shorts out properly?

Mark,

Good friend of mine has a universal response to this .... RTFM !

If there was one, I would; however, reading manuals is pointless if you don't understand the terminology or what is being written, especially as a complete novice with these things.

 

[wombat457]

Jerry,

When I turn the thing on, I need to push SELECT to get the squiggly line, I then push the RANGE button to turn off the Auto and to get the little 'v' on the right hand side. If I continue to push the RANGE button, it changes the decimal point and also brings up the 'mv' on the right hand side. There is another button called REL with a triangle.

The trains do run okay, speed wise, with the exception of the areas between the turnouts and where the insulated joiners are. There doesn't appear to be any power in those areas or the power is VERY intermittent. In other words, I can run a train and it will stop when it gets to the section of track between the insulated joiner and the points. I can then run it again and it will run the entire layout without an issue. The 1/4 test does nothing in those areas either. The 1/4 test DOES cause a short registering with the DCS 100 every where else though.

 

[Mark R.]

No manual came with your meter ? Well, then here you go ....

http://support.radioshack.com/support_meters/doc67/67321.pdf

With the correct range on your meter, you should be getting around 14.5 volts (on the AC setting) if your system is set up properly.

Mark.

 

[Mark R.]

What kind of turnouts are these that you are having problems with ? What is the reason for the insulated joiners ?

Mark.

 

[CSX Robert]

Jerry,

I set my meter to 'V' with the squiggly line on the left and 'v' on the right and am only getting a reading of 3.367 with the DCS 100 powered up...

Since you are using Digitrax, make sure that address 0 (DC or analog loco) is set to 0. If it is not, you will not get the full voltage reading.

 

[wombat457]

No manual came with your meter ? Well, then here you go ....

http://support.radioshack.com/support_meters/doc67/67321.pdf

With the correct range on your meter, you should be getting around 14.5 volts (on the AC setting) if your system is set up properly.

Mark.

Thank you Mark, I'll look at that link and by "your system set up properly" I assume you mean the Meter and not the layout?

What kind of turnouts are these that you are having problems with ? What is the reason for the insulated joiners ?

Mark.

I am using Peco Insulfrog Turnouts through out the layout.

"...What is the reason for the insulated joiners ?..."

This is a good example of what I mean about understanding things... In short, I don't know what the reason for them is but that is what I was told I needed to do for Insulfrog Turnouts and was confirmed by Peco themselves.

The area between the turn outs is a problem. Do you have feeders to that section of track between the insulators? If you do, you may have a bad feeder connection to the bus or track.

Jerry, no I don't have feeders between the insulated joiners and the turnouts. I should add, that the insulated joiners are ONLY on the power rails where I was told to put them. Are you saying that the I now need feeders in between the joiners and the turnout? If so, what is the point of the Insulated Joiners?

Since you are using Digitrax, make sure that address 0 (DC or analog loco) is set to 0. If it is not, you will not get the full voltage reading.

Thanks Robert, I'll have to dig out the manual to find out how to do that, OR, just replace the Digitrax with my new (still in the box) NCE System and see if I get the same result.

Thanks guys for all of your input advice and help. All I ask is that you stay with me on this until I can get it sorted out please.

 

[wombat457]

THIS is what is making all of this so damn frustrating...

I just put my little 2-6-0 on the layout and it ran the entire layout (barring one spot which has glue on the track). The ONLY issue I notice was it tended to slow down in spots then sped up BUT it ran the layout.

I turned everything off and waited a few minutes then turned everything back on - put my 4-6-2 on the layout and it ran till it got the areas between the insulated joiners and turnouts and stopped. I put my 2-6-0 back on the track and it ran as it did in the first test, hesitantly in places but did not stop as such.

I have checked and double checked all of my feeder connections and main bus connections and they all look good, no different to when I first put them in and tested the track work before ballasting it. When I did that, everything was working; hence my going forward with the layout.

 

[wombat457]

The Insulated Joiners are about 6" - 7" from the frog end of the turnouts on the 'Power Rail'. From what you are saying, I need to put feeders between the insulated joiners and the turnouts. Should I do that now, put the additional feeders in, and see what happens then move on from there if things are still causing issues?

I put the 'slow downs' down to dirty track as well. When I first ran the track, it worked well when new and clean. Since then, I have done a lot of scenery work and ballasting hence my belief the track just needs a darn good clean.

Thank you for persisting with me and my 'obviously' very novice knowledge on this. Your help, as is every ones, greatly appreciated.

 

[CSX Robert]

...Thanks Robert, I'll have to dig out the manual to find out how to do that...

You just select address '0' like you would any other loco and make sure the speed is set to '0'.

 

[wombat457]

No, the feeders do not go between a turnout and the insulator. They go on the other side of the insulator away from the turnout. You are trying to get power to the track section beyond the insulator. With DCC, track cleaning is more critical but it is needed for DC as well to have smooth running trains.

Okay, in that case, I have the turnout a section of track (about 6" running from the frog end outwards) then the insulated joiner (power rail) then a series of feeder wires down to the bus to the next turnout where the above is repeated. I'll post a picture of one of the areas so you can see what I am trying to explain, just give me 10 or 15 minutes.

You just select address '0' like you would any other loco and make sure the speed is set to '0'.

Thanks mate ... I'll do that later on today once I get the power problem sorted out.

 

[Iron Horseman]

I have checked and double checked all of my feeder connections and main bus connections and they all look good, no different to when I first put them in and tested the track work before ballasting it. When I did that, everything was working; hence my going forward with the layout.

Ok, when you are cleaning the track are you just cleaning the top, or are you also cleaning the inside edge of the rails? Often when ballasting some glue will suck up the edges of the rail. We had a section of track that had gone dead after years of service. Everyone was looking a wiring and power supplies. The section had recently been ballasted and the ballast glue had sucked up. I figured out the type of glue used, got solvent for it, cleaned the top and inside edges of the rail, and everything was good again.
And since I can't resist posting pictures, this picture just happens to be that section of track before the ballasting.

 

[wombat457]

Jerry,

Here is how I have it wired in relation to the turnouts:

The GREEN lines are the Insulated Joiners and I think you can see where my feeders are in this area. There are another set of feeders to the right of the turnout as well.

This is the same wiring for all of the turnouts except one where the insulated joiner is attached to the frog end of turnout.

Hope this helps and clarifies what I was trying to explain.

Iron,

You have raised a very good point. I have only been cleaning the TOPS of the rails, so maybe it is as you said. I clean the tops using 91% alcohol on a cotton cloth on my finger and use my finger nail to run the cloth along the tops of the rails. Once I have completed that, I will be then running the CMX Cleaning Car to ensure I have it as clean as it possibly can be.

So, with that being said and as I use an Elmers/Water mix for my ballasting, how would you suggest I get into the insides (and outsides) of the rails to clean them, meaning what would suggest I use to run along the rails?

 

[wombat457]

Which of those parallel tracks has the problem? I don't see but one feeder on the inner track. Is there a black feeder on the inner because I can't see it. The outer track seems fine.

Yes, I have both rails (A & B) with feeders, black on one and power on the other. I also ensured the power feeders were all attached to the same rail all the way around. I have a set of feeders every 3 or so feet around the layout.

So, at this stage, it looks like it is more a dirty track issue than anything else. You mentioned a track cleaning car wont do the job, how do you recommend I get the rails "spotless" so as to eliminate dirty track as an issue?

Ah sorry about that, yes there is a black feeder on the inner track, I just managed to hide that one. It seems to be mainly the inner track, but all areas where the turnouts are experience the same issues to one degree or another.

I am very happy that I got the wiring and joiners right though - that is a huge relief as I wasn't looking forward to having to add more feeders at this stage of the game.

 

[wombat457]

Jerry,

Thank you, I will do that tomorrow when I have better light. Thanks guys for the help and hopefully all it is is dirty track.