Weathering Rolling Stock, a Continous thread

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No luck needed. Worst though is you need patience and a plan

Do the cars need washing after the decal setting solution (Micro-Sol) treatment? There seems to be a residue around the decals. I don’t know if it’s from the dissolved decal film or from the setting solution itself, or both.

Or will a gloss coat go over that just fine?
 
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Do the cars need washing after the decal setting solution (Micro-Sol) treatment? There seems to be a residue around the decals. I don’t know if it’s from the dissolved decal film or from the setting solution itself, or both.

Or will a gloss coat go over that just fine?
Not sure!

Has the decal film completely dissolved?

It wouldn’t hurt to rinse the model with some mild dish soap and water.

Did you take a picture?

Weathering may hide it…
 
Do the cars need washing after the decal setting solution (Micro-Sol) treatment? There seems to be a residue around the decals. I don’t know if it’s from the dissolved decal film or from the setting solution itself, or both.

Or will a gloss coat go over that just fine?
My experience with decal application, a few gloss/matte coats will blend it in.

I usually use the old school Microscale decals, with Microsol. So I do know the film you mention. It is the decal film. You can use a few more applications of Microsol, or you can gloss coat it.

-RC Perspective
 


Do the cars need washing after the decal setting solution (Micro-Sol) treatment? There seems to be a residue around the decals. I don’t know if it’s from the dissolved decal film or from the setting solution itself, or both.

Or will a gloss coat go over that just fine?
I gloss coat the model, let dry,apply the decal. I've used the Walthers solvaset and have had good luck with it. Gloss coat over the decal to cover the ghosting that may occur. Lastly dull coat the whole model and send off to the weathering station.
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Not sure!

Has the decal film completely dissolved?

It wouldn’t hurt to rinse the model with some mild dish soap and water.

Did you take a picture?

Weathering may hide it…

It’s a shiny area in a region around the decals (not the perimeter of the film as cut) that corresponds to the area brushed with the Micr-Sol. No buildup or haze to it, it’s just glossier than the gloss coat I applied before the decals.

And I’m just wary, because, as you may recall, this foray into decals began as a result of a problem with gloss coating. I don’t want to walk in to another.

Perhaps “residue” is too strong a word for it - there is no real buildup - I couldn’t think of another at the time. It’s almost like the Micro-Sol is perhaps polishing the gloss coat surface.

I took this photograph, but this is one of those cases where the subtlety is lost in the photo:

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One car fully decaled:

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The other side actually is the better side…better alignment of the BAL TIMO RE & OHIO bits.

If I don’t use up both my spares in finishing the second car, I’ll replace that bit.
Sounds like it was just the leftover decal film/microsol solution. Looks great! Can't wait to see how you weather it!

I don't know what I would do without Microsol; such great stuff.

-RC
 
Sounds like it was just the leftover decal film/microsol solution. Looks great! Can't wait to see how you weather it!

I don't know what I would do without Microsol; such great stuff.

-RC

It’s not possible to see from that photo, but the “glaze/shine” is still there. I’m going to get the second car finished, let it sit overnight, then give both a gentle soap & water wash and rinse.

Probably Dawn dishwashing liquid…gentle enough for baby ducks, right?
 
Looks great! Can't wait to see how you weather it!

Thank you.

Yeah, how to weather it, or any car can be a bit of a puzzle. I try to use historical images when possible. For these, there is not a lot.

There really isn’t anything directly applicable to these cars.

I did find a color museum photograph of a B&O “iron box car” built in 1863. Probably not original paint, but is rusty and the color is very much like what I painted these cars.

In reading and looking through photo archives (mainly C&O Historical Society, (which has a lot of B&O content), I have read and confirmed that a lot of boxcar reds don’t don’t/didn’t fade over time, but would darken.

So, I’ve decided in general for these two cars:

1. No fading of the base color
2. Create some variation between planks by going slightly dark in some spots
3. Some additional darkening in corners between braces
4. A “fade coat” of a thinned version of the body color to age the lettering
5. A dark wash to accent plank lines, bracing, rivets
6. Subtle wash/run marks to depict deterioration of the lettering.
7. Subtle steam era grime via pastel chalks and/or dry pigments.
 
Thank you.

Yeah, how to weather it, or any car can be a bit of a puzzle. I try to use historical images when possible. For these, there is not a lot.

There really isn’t anything directly applicable to these cars.

I did find a color museum photograph of a B&O “iron box car” built in 1863. Probably not original paint, but is rusty and the color is very much like what I painted these cars.

In reading and looking through photo archives (mainly C&O Historical Society, (which has a lot of B&O content), I have read and confirmed that a lot of boxcar reds don’t don’t/didn’t fade over time, but would darken.

So, I’ve decided in general for these two cars:

1. No fading of the base color
2. Create some variation between planks by going slightly dark in some spots
3. Some additional darkening in corners between braces
4. A “fade coat” of a thinned version of the body color to age the lettering
5. A dark wash to accent plank lines, bracing, rivets
6. Subtle wash/run marks to depict deterioration of the lettering.
7. Subtle steam era grime via pastel chalks and/or dry pigments.
This will be interesting to follow. I find it strange that there is no need to fade but you’ve got the pictures to prove that.
 


I have a few Walthers Mainline yellow FBOX box cars that I purchased to speculate on selling them weathered and graffitied. This particular car is part of a series of 4 cars I purchased for a client. Back in 2022 I could not buy these fast enough to weather and sell. I had a request from a regular buyer and he wanted them lightly weathered but with graffiti and a couple tags. He liked my decal work. The cars have a build date in 2011 and he was a 2016 to 2020 modeler. His lightly weathered request made sense for the years he modeled. I started on them and than he got sick. He said keep them, sent me a few bucks for he said “wasting your time” and I put them aside. I pulled them out (after 2 years) to work on before I took a trip 10 days ago. Now I’m back trying to clean out the shelves!

I need your thoughts. Should I deepen the weathering? When I pulled them out I figured I’d finish them for my use. But I have plenty of box cars for the layout. Finish them for me and try to sell another time, that’s normal for me but I’m not sure where to go next

Thanks

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This will be interesting to follow. I find it strange that there is no need to fade but you’ve got the pictures to prove that.

That’s the thing…almost all color pictures of boxcars-in service are steel boxcars. Most color pictures of wood boxcars are of retired and/or museum pieces. And museum pieces get TLC that the originals don’t get.

Was the paint formulation the same for wooden cars the same as for steel cars? I don’t know.

I know two things, well, three:

1. Remarks I’ve read about colors not fading and sometimes even darkening don’t pertain to all colors, but pertained to some reds & browns of the era. Lots of other colors get beat all to…well.

2. Lots of photos in the C& O Historical Society archives (cohs.org) would seem to bear this out. When I began looking in that archive two years ago, I was surprised at how vivid base colors could remain. This must be considered against photographic film accuracy of 1940s-1970s film accuracy. (Yes, the steam era ended in 1956 on the C&O, but lots of rolling stock made it decades longer.)

I look for tell-tale things in old pictures in evaluating “the likelihood (because there’s no 100% guarantee) of color fidelity”: a reasonably blue sky, green grass & foliage, and anything else either well or poorly rendered.

If the whole photo looks, say, sepia-toned for example, I don’t consider it representative.

Old railfan movie films seem to have worse color accuracy than still photos of like vintage.

3. Model manufactures, at least the better ones, and at least for the railroads I buy pieces for, (C&O, B&O, N&W, and a few other strays) apply colors that comport with what I see in the archives for newer cars: C&O is rather brown as “boxcar red” goes, N&W has more red, and B&O has more than either. Union Pacific (at least by the time a stray makes it to West Virginia) is a pretty straight brown.

Now the colors do change some… I think what is going on is fading of individual pigments that made up those paints. All three of those above railroads, the cars became “more red” over time, with the seams/rivet areas becoming reddish black, almost a purple hue over time. My guess is that black pigment is fading faster than red is in these paint formulations, and the color gets “brighter”, redder over time.

And you can see the differential rate at which pigments fade on interstate signs - those brand signs at some exits, showing gas/food/lodging brands -some colors fade at a noticeably faster rate than others. Not railroad paint, but you can see the principle in operation.

Do railroad paints fade more today , than did the paints in the days of yore? By and large, I don’t know: The ubiquity of the yellow Railbox is alien to my boxcar red lens through which I view the past world , and the black coal hopper doesn’t pay a call to the region I live in now. (Alas!) But with all sorts of chemicals/PCBs/hydrocarbons/VOCs of Death that were part and parcel of paints, varnishes & processes of old, having been restricted or banned, I wouldn’t be surprised.
 
I need your thoughts. Should I deepen the weathering? When I pulled them out I figured I’d finish them for my use. But I have plenty of box cars for the layout. Finish them for me and try to sell another time, that’s normal for me but I’m not sure where to go next
Me personally, I would leave them as they are!

If I didn't have a glut of these cars already, I would snatch them up and run them on my modern layout!

Superb job, for me anyway, I say you nailed it!
 
This will be interesting to follow. I find it strange that there is no need to fade but you’ve got the pictures to prove that.

Well, like my long-winded post says, I think some pigments in a paint may fade faster than others. Another comparison is tree leaves: If you scrutinize the foliage year-round, a lot of those reds & oranges you see in the fall were there when the tree leafed out. Then, when the chlorophyll breaks down in the fall, those reds that were not at all visible in the summer are there, some brighter/deeper than the green ever was.

Now, here is a set of three photos, the bottom of which I have posted before:

IMG_4244.png

Now they’re all “faded”, but they all still have, to me, incredible dark, rich color to them. Heck that bottom one is so “faded” that you’re looking clean through both sides of it under the big B. Ain’t no pigment left there!

You can see these at cohs.org, type “b&o box color” in the search text box, and click on the “all words” button, then hit search. They’re near the top of the hit list.

The build dates aren’t legible on those photos,* but I’ve found a model of the bottom one in identical paint & configuration that has a BLT date of 1941, and an “MC” date of 1959; the photo date of the prototype is 1983. I’m presuming it got its last major TLC and paint in 1959, so we’re looking at a 42-year old car with a nearly quarter-century old paint job.

I think I’ve fortuitously mixed my color a bit bright for the car in comparison to paint fresh from the B&O shop, and the planned dark pin wash will get me pretty close overall.

I guess the more accurate assessment is some of these cars (for weathering models) need brightened/tinted in comparison to the factory paint, because real cars appear to be losing their darker pigment components fastest.

EDIT: Road number looks to be 465537 on the photo, the model is 465557, so it looks like they are from the same build for the B&O.
 
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I have a few Walthers Mainline yellow FBOX box cars that I purchased to speculate on selling them weathered and graffitied. This particular car is part of a series of 4 cars I purchased for a client. Back in 2022 I could not buy these fast enough to weather and sell. I had a request from a regular buyer and he wanted them lightly weathered but with graffiti and a couple tags. He liked my decal work. The cars have a build date in 2011 and he was a 2016 to 2020 modeler. His lightly weathered request made sense for the years he modeled. I started on them and than he got sick. He said keep them, sent me a few bucks for he said “wasting your time” and I put them aside. I pulled them out (after 2 years) to work on before I took a trip 10 days ago. Now I’m back trying to clean out the shelves!

I need your thoughts. Should I deepen the weathering? When I pulled them out I figured I’d finish them for my use. But I have plenty of box cars for the layout. Finish them for me and try to sell another time, that’s normal for me but I’m not sure where to go next

Thanks

View attachment 197524View attachment 197525View attachment 197526View attachment 197527View attachment 197528View attachment 197529View attachment 197530View attachment 197531View attachment 197532
Honestly, these look great just the way they are, though IMO, more subtle highlights of the ladders and maybe some light kick up on the ends might add a little more "pop".

Well, like my long-winded post says, I think some pigments in a paint may fade faster than others. Another comparison is tree leaves: If you scrutinize the foliage year-round, a lot of those reds & oranges you see in the fall were there when the tree leafed out. Then, when the chlorophyll breaks down in the fall, those reds that were not at all visible in the summer are there, some brighter/deeper than the green ever was.

Now, here is a set of three photos, the bottom of which I have posted before:

View attachment 197543
Now they’re all “faded”, but they all still have, to me, incredible dark, rich color to them. Heck that bottom one is so “faded” that you’re looking clean through both sides of it under the big B. Ain’t no pigment left there!

You can see these at cohs.org, type “b&o box color” in the search text box, and click on the “all words” button, then hit search. They’re near the top of the hit list.

The build dates aren’t legible on those photos,* but I’ve found a model of the bottom one in identical paint & configuration that has a BLT date of 1941, and an “MC” date of 1959; the photo date of the prototype is 1983. I’m presuming it got its last major TLC and paint in 1959, so we’re looking at a 42-year old car with a nearly quarter-century old paint job.

I think I’ve fortuitously mixed my color a bit bright for the car in comparison to paint fresh from the B&O shop, and the planned dark pin wash will get me pretty close overall.

I guess the more accurate assessment is some of these cars (for weathering models) need brightened/tinted in comparison to the factory paint, because real cars appear to be losing their darker pigment components fastest.

EDIT: Road number looks to be 465537 on the photo, the model is 465557, so it looks like they are from the same build for the B&O.

I like that first one. Seems to me to be a good middle point. Not quite totally falling apart, but shows many decades on the rails at the least.

-RC
 
I like that first one. Seems to me to be a good middle point. Not quite totally falling apart, but shows many decades on the rails at the least.

-RC
Yeah, my goal there was to show that those cars were pretty much at (even past) the point of pronouncing “ashes to ashes, dust to dust” but that those particular paints of the era still had lots of dark, robust color left.

I’m not saying I’m getting all this right; when it comes to legacy stuff like this that existed half a century ago, I try pretty hard to get close to what the historical record says/shows. When I get to 3/4 century or a full century ago, I shoot for what is plausible and reasonable, because good info gets a bit more sparse. In any case I shoot for what is also within my skill level to achieve, and perhaps stretch those skills.

When it gets to 125 years ago, like the 1899 box car I weathered, it’s necessary to get more speculative, and think in general principles. The principles I applied for that were:

1. As produced by Athearn, that car was a brighter red than any photo of any real C&O car I’ve seen from any source.
2. Other Athearn C&O cars that are verifiable via photographic record were excessively red & bright
3. I’m not a historian on the propagation of petroleum usage from the 1860s forward, but I have to think that the paints used in 1899 were probably a lot more like the linseed oil based paints used on, say, Old Ironsides in 1797, than the petroleum based paints in use by the 1930s. Which difference means more fading, more peeling, less protective, etc. on such vintage pieces.

That’s how that piece ended up being in such contravention of things I’ve said in my previous 10-12 posts.

I probably get a lot wrong, but I’m glad I can make use of a pretty good photo archive for my railroad that improves the likelihood I’m in the ballpark.
 
Honestly, these look great just the way they are, though IMO, more subtle highlights of the ladders and maybe some light kick up on the ends might add a little more "pop".



I like that first one. Seems to me to be a good middle point. Not quite totally falling apart, but shows many decades on the rails at the least.

-RC
Thanks. I agree there needs to be a heavier kick up spray. I will work on that. This is where I’m at as of noon 8/28!
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Thanks. I agree there needs to be a heavier kick up spray. I will work on that. This is where I’m at as of noon 8/28!
View attachment 197626
Just realized you had only posted that right one in the last post. That left car is perfect; dirty, but not decrepit and rotting (the right car is great too!). Haven't really figured out why yet, but I only seem to run the 50 foot boxcars. 48 foot IM well cars are ok around my curves, dunno how well autoracks would fare. I'm pretty much at that era just before they started making the 53 foot well cars.

Probably because of how compressed I have my yard, being a 12 inch wide layout. I shoehorned 3 wide yard track, mainline, and an industrial spur into that 12 inches LOL.

-RC
 
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Well, like my long-winded post says, I think some pigments in a paint may fade faster than others. Another comparison is tree leaves: If you scrutinize the foliage year-round, a lot of those reds & oranges you see in the fall were there when the tree leafed out. Then, when the chlorophyll breaks down in the fall, those reds that were not at all visible in the summer are there, some brighter/deeper than the green ever was.

Now, here is a set of three photos, the bottom of which I have posted before:

View attachment 197543
Now they’re all “faded”, but they all still have, to me, incredible dark, rich color to them. Heck that bottom one is so “faded” that you’re looking clean through both sides of it under the big B. Ain’t no pigment left there!

You can see these at cohs.org, type “b&o box color” in the search text box, and click on the “all words” button, then hit search. They’re near the top of the hit list.

The build dates aren’t legible on those photos,* but I’ve found a model of the bottom one in identical paint & configuration that has a BLT date of 1941, and an “MC” date of 1959; the photo date of the prototype is 1983. I’m presuming it got its last major TLC and paint in 1959, so we’re looking at a 42-year old car with a nearly quarter-century old paint job.

I think I’ve fortuitously mixed my color a bit bright for the car in comparison to paint fresh from the B&O shop, and the planned dark pin wash will get me pretty close overall.

I guess the more accurate assessment is some of these cars (for weathering models) need brightened/tinted in comparison to the factory paint, because real cars appear to be losing their darker pigment components fastest.

EDIT: Road number looks to be 465537 on the photo, the model is 465557, so it looks like they are from the same build for the B&O.
Man. You've now started me off on wanting to replicate that last boxcar.

-RC
 
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