Upgrading old freight equipment

[NP2626]

In my trip down memory lane in my Thread entitled "Back to 1960", I got to thinking I should look and see if I can find some; or, all of the cars I had when I first got into the hobby back in 1960. Well, I have done just that, I went onto Ebay and looked for the old Tyco, Revell and Varney freight cars I had back then and decided if a car looked fairly good and the price wasn't crazy high, I would purchase them. So, I found a Tyco MKT "The KATY" yellow Box car and a Pennsylvania RR Gondola in Tuscan. These where the actual cars I had. I also found a Varney NYC Stock car, the same one I had; but, could not find a red Revell covered hopper. I did find a gray Revell B&O covered hopper. I also found an Athearn 40 foot Blue Box (although this was a Yellow Box) DL&W box car. After I finish the kit bash of the Caboose I am working on at present, I will start working on these cars. Interestingly, the tyco and Athearn box cars came with Baker couplers. I have always been interested in seeing these couplers up close and understanding how they worked. Originally the Tyco cars and the Revell Cars all had Talgo trucks (trucks with couplers attached. I will be converting all to body mounted Kadee couplers and replacing the old sprung trucks with plastic wheels with ridged trucks and metal wheelsets.

The idea here is to take a look at what some of us feel are inferior products and seeing if they can be upgraded enough to look presentable along side my Branchline, Intermountain and other more modern kit freight cars. The Tyco and Revell cars have molded on roof walks and I will not be changing this; but, I do have ideas on how to diminish how this looks. I will show photos of the completed project and discuss what I did to each individual car.

Surely you guys must have old stuff that you have worked on to make look and work better. Please show us what you have done.

 

[Iron Horseman]

I will start working on these cars. Interestingly, the tyco and Athearn box cars came with Baker couplers. I have always been interested in seeing these couplers up close and understanding how they worked. Originally the Tyco cars and the Revell Car all had Talgo trucks (trucks with couplers attached. I will be converting all to body mounted Kadee couplers and replacing the old sprung trucks with plastic wheels with ridged tracks and metal wheels.

Doesn't doing that sort of destroy the historical context of what you are trying to remember?

The idea here is to take a look at what some of us feel are inferior products and seeing if they can be upgraded enough to look presentable along side my Branchline, Intermountain and other more modern kit freight cars.

You could do that with any of the Tyco esque type cars available. Why not use others for this experiment and keep your memory cars "pure"?

Surely you guys must have old stuff that you have worked on to make look and work better. Please show us what you have done.

At one time I was writing a series of articles I was going to title something like "from trash to treasure"..... No idea where those cars are right now. I'll have to look for a few lurking in storage and get some photos of the finished ones to post.

 

[NP2626]

Doesn't doing that sort of destroy the historical context of what you are trying to remember?

I guess so, Memory Lane is a fairly short street for me! I don't feel a need to hold onto the cars as simple memory stimulators and would much rather make them useful for today!

You could do that with any of the Tyco esque type cars available. Why not use others for this experiment and keep your memory cars "pure"?

You have used the term: "Memory Car". Obviously, I don't feel the same way about this, as you do. BNSF971 made a comment about how crappy the older equipment was. I took this as a challenge to go back and see if they indeed where crappy and also see what I could do to make them better.

At one time I was writing a series of articles I was going to title something like "from trash to treasure"..... No idea where those cars are right now. I'll have to look for a few lurking in storage and get some photos of the finished ones to post.

There you go!

 

[NP2626]

My Ebay purchases where as follows, included in this price are the shipping costs: The Tyco MKT Box Car cost me $10.95. The Tyco Pennsey. Gondola cost $9.00. The Athearn DL&W Box Car cost $11.28. The Revell Covered Hopper cost $14.00. The Varney NYC Stock Car cost $11.80. Rounded off I have $56.00 total invested in the purchase of these five old old cars.

My most recent purchase in a Hobby Shop of an Accurail double sheathed N.P. Box car cost $17.95. That the Accurail box car is a nicer model than any of the previously mentioned old cars, is without doubt. However, the molded on details on all of the old cars, in comparison to the Accurail car, is on a par, excepting the Tyco, Varney and Revell's roof walks, are molded on and the Athearn Box car and Accurail box car have separately applied roof walks. I have Kadee couplers and some trucks to purchase for these cars, so there will be more costs.

 

[santafewillie]

Ain't nothing wrong with those "crappy" cars. I have several on the layout that I have replaced couplers (and body-mounted them), and added metal wheels. I weather them as well. Roofwalks don't matter to me as the era that I model didn't have them any more. I have used a very sharp pointed lead pencil to outline grabs to make them seem more three dimensional, produces a shadow effect. While I have replaced some stirrups with A-Line ones, it's not really noticeable in moving trains.

Willie

 

[KB02]

Actually, most of my rolling stock is old "Toy" stuff that I have been slowing upgrading and occasionally practicing my weathering on. I will be watching this thread with great interest. I love seeing things that some would just discard be turned into great pieces that anyone would be happy to own.

 

[new guy]

Excellent thread! I "model" no specific anything so "ancient" stock is no problem, upgrading to better wheels and couplers has been my plan all along. Please post pics of parts particular to picky pieces and what works best in your experience for different old rollers.

 

[Greg@mnrr]

Forum:

In my opinion there's nothing wrong with running the "Blue Box" era of model railroading rolling stock. Dollar for dollar there are excellent buys out there at swap meets and train shows where one can purchase these classics by the single piece or in groups.

As an example, I purchased at a train show two groups of older rolling stock for $35-37 for six cars. Each was equipped with metal wheels and KD couplers. In general, most of the cars were lightly weathered and in excellent condition. This also the same price I cold of paid for one highly detailed KD freight car. Running these cars in a string behind a locomotive or two looks great and grouped in a yard, one forgets that they are in the mid 30 year old range or older. Yes weathering had added to their realistic appearance.

Recently, I purchased four custom decaled and painted flat cars, each equipped with sprung KD trucks and KD couplers at a cost of $5 per car!!! These once belonged to a well owned Wisconsin modeler.

These swap meet purchases are an excellent path to increase your collection of rolling stock and equipment at bargain prices and help keep the hobby affordable. The value of these classics increases if you find them already equipped with metal wheels and KD couplers, factors I consider a key to smooth running and operation.

I enjoy purchasing rolling stock from estate sales or and items from personal collections which helps to keep the original's owners' dreams and hobby efforts alive and active.

Thanks.

Greg

 

[NP2626]

The "Blue Box" era of model railroading was a good time to be in this hobby. I remember walking into hobby shops as late as the mid 1990s and finding Athearn "Blue Box" kits on the shelf, selling for $3.00! Even back then, I thought "Wow what a deal" and hoped Poppa Irv was making money at that price. However, I love the building of models and have no interest in the expensive, ready built rolling stock which predominates the hobby today. In fact, given how the hobby has evolved in the last 25 years, I would walk right by Model Railroading and find something else to do as there would be so little to entice me into the hobby, today!

That many of you are happy with how the hobby has evolved, is evident by the plethora of expensive "Ready to Roll" equipment you buy. So, you have the hobby how you want it, now. When I started, the hobby was how I wanted it, back then. So, enjoy yourselves; but, know that things always change and that change isn't always for the better.

The purpose of this thread is to see if I could take older-cheaper models and make them look presentable next to my Life Like P2K, Branchline, Intermountain, Red Caboose kits etc...

 

[KB02]

I've always thought about posting a contest to see who could take the cheapest looking POS and make it into something that could make others wonder it is was real or not when posting pictures. I've got a cheapy Lifelike caboose that I will be using this thread as inspiration for.

 

[otiscnj]

I got into model railroading in the 70's, when blue box kits were generally under $10 each. Back in the 80's I got some detail parts like stirrups, and things like that, to upgrade my rolling stock, 'when I had time.' I still have the parts, but haven't upgraded the kits yet.

I've also been looking at models from that period recently, as I'm fine with running 'shorty' passenger cars, TOFC, and auto racks. My curves are mostly 26-28" radii, so the shorter cars improve operations, and have less unprototypical overhang.

So yes, I consider myself in the same boat.

 

[NP2626]

I have stirrups from A-Line? that I use. I find it difficult to get the space between the holes right and keep them where they need to be and have devised a drill jig for getting them right. There are occasions where I leave the as manufactured stirrups on. Like someone said: Seeing that these details are over-sized is not as noticeable when the train is rolling by.

Also, I'm O.K. with the fact that I have a MODEL RAILROAD and am just attempting to have fun and not be a Rivet Counter. However, Rivet Counting is the fun for others, so count away!

 

[montanan]

I can't complain a bit about the old Atheran blue box kits. When I moved from N scale to HO scale somewhere around 1980, there weren't a lot of good kits on the market. They were the best bang for the buck back then. There were some older Tyco cars around, most of them requiring the truck mounted couplers that needed to be changed to body mounted couplers. There were also the Roundhouse kits, but I didn't care for the metal floors that they had and they were a bit more crude compared to the blue box kits. I did build a few of the old Silver Streak wood kits which were excellent if you took your time.

Being that I was starting in HO scale from scratch, I picked up a lot of the blue box kits, many of them undecorated. As I was hand laying my code 70 track and turnouts, I set up sort of an assembly line, painting and lettering some of the undecorated cars for my freelance railroad plus decorating some of them with dry transfers for railroads that were not available at the time.



Kadee metal wheels or sprung Kadee trucks were installed (Kadee wheels were at the time the most affordable wheel sets). Kadee couplers were then installed. I took pains to make sure that the height was right on and that the couplers operated properly. The cars were then lightly weathered. All of them are still in service today. over the years I also picked up some Walthers kits, Intermountain, Tichy and some others. Also I put some wood caboose kits together. Took a bit more time, but I liked them.



These I took the time to change out the coil springs in the Kadee trucks and installed leaf springs. They're still running just fine.

In recent years I have picked up a few Kadee box cars for eastern railroads which I had overlooked. Most of what I had were from western railroads. I didn't want to pay the big bucks and managed to pick them up on Amazon at less than regular retail.

I am perfectly happy with my old blue box cars. When running a a train with more highly detailed cars, you really can't tell the difference until you get close to them.

The only person I have to please is myself.

 

[NP2626]

I can't complain a bit about the old Atheran blue box kits.

Being that I was starting in HO scale from scratch, I picked up a lot of the blue box kits, many of them undecorated. As I was hand laying my code 70 track and turnouts, I set up sort of an assembly line, painting and lettering some of the undecorated cars for my freelance railroad plus decorating some of them with dry transfers for railroads that were not available at the time.

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I am perfectly happy with my old blue box cars. When running a train with more highly detailed cars, you really can't tell the difference until you get close to them.

The only person I have to please is myself.

And happy you should be, Chet! They are good looking cars. As I was starting to have way more freight cars than I needed, I decided to get rid of some. What I got rid of where the Athearn BB cars I started this round of the hobby with, back in the late 80s and early 90s. However, I still have many Athearn BB cars. Their box cars make wonderful "Masonite Pad" track cleaning cars. I also love Athearn's Tank cars and have a collection of those. Mostly what I sold off where cars that were technically outside my era. Like you, I have changed all my cars to have Kadee #5 Couplers and most have their original trucks; but, with Life Like Proto 2000 metal wheel sets. Actually, I like non-sprung trucks better than sprung. I think the tiny springs don't look right and I loose the springs every time I go to change the wheel sets, anyway. Since the old Life Like P2K wheel sets have gone away forever, I have been trying different manufacturers wheel sets. I like chilled wheels and only Kadee produce them as far as I know. I have tried Reboxx, Intermountain, and a few others. None have tripped my trigger, yet!

I like your weathering, Chet!!

 

[NP2626]

An interesting side note (at least to me) what I thought where called Baker couplers must have been invented by Mantua. I was just paging through the Model Railroader April 1950 issue, at the Model Railroader "All Time digital Archives" and came across an ad for Globe Models, where they state "Globe develops it's models to take all couplers"! They then show three types of couplers mounted in their bolster: a Devore coupler, a Mantua coupler and a dummy coupler. April of 1950 must even before the NMRA Horn Hook couplers where developed. Did Globe Models become absorbed into Athearn?

The Baker coupler and and Mantua at least are very similar. I know that John Allen used the Baker coupler. Is anyone here using the Baker Couplers? Two of the cars I just purchased, a Mantua/Tyco box car and an Athearn box car came with Baker Couplers. Either the cars were very old and unused; or, the folks I bought them from used Baker Couplers.

 

[NP2626]

So, my Northern Pacific caboose is finished and it's time to see what I can do with the old freight cars I bought off of Ebay a while back. I am in the process of dissembling them, so I can mount body mounted Kadee # 5s, get rid of the Talgo trucks and see what I can do about some of details that where molded on (roof walks and stirrups). My first impressions of the Tyco, Revell and Varney cars that I bought are that excepting that most details where molded on, they really are very nicely made cars!

 

[Iron Horseman]

Did Globe Models become absorbed into Athearn?

Yes, Athearn purchased the Globe line.

Is anyone here using the Baker Couplers?

I have never used them in service nor even operated on a layout that does. I have a few cars for display that have them just for historical reasons. Fleishman also made an HO basket & hook type coupler that looks very similar to the Baker. I've only ever seen one set of cars with those. Seems once the XF2 came out and the Kadee was introduced all the other tens of types rapidly fell from common usage. By the time I got my first trains in the early 1960s, the XF2 was on everything new from the store.

I thought it interesting that the LGB G-gauge couplers seem very much like the Baker. Those I do use, and they work flawlessly.

 

[NP2626]

Excepting the Tyco Gondola which had Kadees already installed, the couplers have been removed from all the cars. I have ordered replacement Kadee trucks for two of the cars and will swap the wheels on the old trucks I use, with metal wheel sets. I have also clipped off all on the plastic stirrups and am in the process of replacing them with A-Line Products stirrups. I'm finding this process to be very enjoyable!

 

[NP2626]

All cars now have their A-Line Stirrups installed. This process really improves the look of the cars. Today I'm going to paint the roof of the yellow MKT car Microlux Grimy Black. I'm hopefull that this process will make the roof walk being molded on, not quite so noticeable. I may end up doing this for the Revell B&O Covered Hopper and the Varney NYC Stock Car, too. One thing I have noticed is that the plastic used to mold these cars seems to be somewhat fragile. Maybe the plastic has gotten brittle over the years; or, plastic was more brittle back when these car where made. Drilling the .020 diameter holes for the stirrups was a task that required a certain amount of care to be successful at.

I know a lot of you guys would probably like to see photos of the processes involved here. However, after documenting the build of my caboose, I just wanted to do something and have fun doing it. I will show photos of the 5 cars when I am done modifying and weathering them.

 

[NP2626]

Painting the roof of the yellow MKT car did improve it's looks. The fact that the roof walk was molded on, seems to disappear because of the paint.