Totally lost with everything... Where do I start?

[Krueger81]

Hello,

I am not new to model trains but it's been a while since I've done anything with model trains. I would like to get back into it but it's been like 15 yrs or so ...

Where do I start reading up on this? What is up with DCC stuff? ARRRGGGHH I am confused

Could anyone point me in the right direction?

thanks
Phil

 

[hamltnblue]

For starters I would do a lot of reading in the forums here. Also Here
http://www.trains.com/mrr/default.aspx
If you have any questions ask away. There are several people that will always help.

 

[Selector]

In a nutshell, this is what DCC is:

Pulsed DC current to the motors, but AC current to the rails.

How do we get around all that, you ask? The current supplied to the rails is called "square wave", and comes in rapid pulses, but it has the characteristics of AC current...up and down past 'neutral'. Imprinted on that digitized AC current are instructions to the tiny microchip that must be inside every DCC locomotive. The microchip does the rest.

In DC you have to dial up the voltage to make the train go faster. With DCC, the voltage to the rails is constant, and it goes up or down as you set it for the scale locomotives.

How does the engine go faster, you ask, if the voltage is constant? That microchip meters out DC current to the motor, but still pulsed for really good slow speed response. So the current is rectified, in a way, by the chip. BTW, it is called a 'decoder'.

How do you stop all engines from doing the same thing like they would in DC?

No decoder will act on any throttle inputs you give to the system unless you call up the decoder. That means you must name each decoder so that it will know to whom you are speaking. We mostly assign the cab number of the locomotive to each engine's decoder, and when we dial in Loco 123, only that decoder will act on your commands. DCC stands for Digital Command Control. It is wonderful because on the same powered rails, you don't get all the engines wanting to chase each other. You can make two engines nose up to each other and touch couplers.

There is much more. Go to tonystrainexchange.com and read his DCC primer.

-Crandell

 

[UP2CSX]

Spend some time reading the the NMRA Beginners Guide at http://www.nmra.com/beginner/. It will explain most of the basic concepts and details and you'll be a lot less confused.

 

[brubakes]

Don't get discouraged. I was (still is too) in the same boat about coming back into the hobby after years away. You will catch up on it quickly.

 

[BDP]

I am also coming back from a 20 year absence and I feel like my head is going to explode with information and I havent even started to build my benchwork yet. Hang in there like I am and try to soak it all in. DCC seems very intimidating but I am slowly catching on and if I can anyone can. When it comes to electricity forget it with me.

 

[drew1125]

These folks were an immense help to me, with products, moral support, & basic info for dummirs like me...(Check out the "DCC University" link)

http://litchfieldstation.com/DCC-University/index.htm

 

[Krueger81]

ok so I have read some of those websites and still a little confused.

I understand the concept of DCC now and it seems like it's exactly what I am looking for.

Now when I go out and look at some of these items on line what should I be looking for?

DCC-Ready or DCC-Equipped ?

also is there such a thing as a shopping list as to what to buy to get this on the road? obviouskly I would need some sort of "Powerpack" to run all this?

Thanks again for the links above and the thorough explanation about DCC stuff

Phil

 

[Selector]

DCC ready used to be a mess....it meant whatever that manufacturer wanted it to mean. As time went on, it has come to mean that the engine has a tether inside, or a connector, either 6 pin or 8 pin. In some cases, it also means that they have engineered it to accept a speaker if the decoder you elect to install/have installed for you is to be a sound decoder. That is, there is decent space set aside for a speaker.

DCC equipped means it has a decoder, anywhere from 4-6 functions, say, so that lights are controlled and maybe extra flashing lighting effects such as ditch lights on modern diesels, etc. It does NOT mean it has a sound decoder. If it has a sound-generating capability, it costs as much as 60-80 dollars more than just DCC equipped, and it will be labelled "DCC with sound", or say it has a QSI sound or Tsunami, Loksound....whatever they purchased and installed at time of assembly of the engine.

If you want sound, you need to specify...and pay. If you only want DCC engine control, including lights, you need to look for "DCC equipped".

Selecting a suitable DCC control system is a whole nuther ball of wax. There are all kinds, and they are not capable of the same thing. Stay away from EZ-Command by Bachmann. It can be had for a few bucks, but it is only partially capable of accessing all the functions you WILL want to adjust in your decoders. Look at Digitrax, NCE, EZ DCC, CVP, Lenz, Roco....they all make good reliable products. Even the EZ-DCC by Bachmann is well made and reliable...it just won't let you get that Ferrari out of second gear.

Yes, you need a power supply (wall wart) for these systems, but the only one I know that requires you to make a separate purchase is Digitrax. The other fellers will tell you about their packages....but you get the base station, like a power pack, except it is DCC, and you also get a paddle with pressable buttons and a small digital display. One of the stumbling points for first time buyers is the ergonomics and the interface in terms of the language and difficulty of getting into the manuals, and also how easy the LCD display is to read, how intuitive the programming process, how big or small the paddle (throttle) feels in your hand....you get the picture. That is why many of us urge you to contact clubs locally and visit to see what they have (for support later) and maybe even test their systems for yourself.

-Crandell

 

[Krueger81]

My understanding is that everything that I purchase has to be DCC "ready" correct like tracks and such? Turnouts and so on?

Thanks
Phil

 

[Selector]

There are mixed feelings on this, and it depends on the experience of the person you are talking to. I have been in DCC for the past four years, and I accepted that when turnouts were labelled "DCC-friendly", or what Peco calls Insulfrog (frogs are gapped and therefore insulated...unpowered) were the way to go. I have DCC friendly gapped frogs exclusively and experience no problems. Others find they must gap frogs that are on older turnouts, or they must find ways to control power on the various routes through the turnout, depending on which way the points rails are positioned. It means soldering and cutting and passing the power through DPDT switches to reverse the polarity. You don't need to do that with DCC-friendly turnouts. So, as much as others have successfully handled "non-DCC friendly" turnouts and still have no difficulties using DCC, I elected to accept the current method of simply having dead and gapped frogs.

So, I can definitely vouch for using DCC-friendly turnouts.

As for the rest of the tracks, it doesn't matter....they can't tell what power they are getting, and neither can the engines tell what kind of track they are on. Buy nice track, the best you can afford, for looks. It all works the same, but it all doesn't look the same. Same for turnouts. Some have nice detail, some are clunky.

Micro Engineering track and turnouts have a good reputation, Atlas Code 100 and 83 track is well received (I don't know about the other codes in Atlas, including in N Scale), but Peco makes track, and good turnouts (I like them a lot! I use their Streamline Code 83 Insulfrog #6 turnouts) Walthers/Shinohara turnouts are also nice.

Note that Micro Engineering track is tricky to form into nice curves, but once you get the hang of it, it is straightforward.

 

[UP2CSX]

There are no issues with the tracks themselves and DCC. Any type of track will work. As Crandell said, there are some issues with live frog switches, but you can work arouond them. Don't get to hooked up in the phrases "DCC ready" or "DCC friendly". A lot of it is just marketing hype.

 

[Krueger81]

is it safe to assume that mixing and matching different track is ok?

I have looked at pictures of crossing and such and it seems like all the atlas stuff seems "insulated" so the cross portions of the track never touch

I've used Atlas stuff in the past before and it's seemed to help up. Also the numbers on the Turnouts mean what?

Thanks
Phil

 

[Selector]

Turnout # is the number of the frog, which in turn indicates the rate of diversion laterally for every unit of advancement along the major axis of the turnout...in other words, the 'through' route. A #6 turnout diverges one unit for every 6 units of axial travel, but this is measured at the frog point. English turnouts, like the older Peco ones, curve all the way through, while N. American style turnouts are straight at the frog and beyond on both routes.

Yes, you can mix and match track, but don't expect it to be smooth sailing. Even within brands, the tie heights can differ. But if you try to match Code 83 Peco with Code 100 Atlas or Model Power, you will have to use adaptive joiners, or use cardstock shims, or solder them...with the aim being to match the tops of the rails and also their flange surfaces.

-Crandell

 

[Western Star]

I would like to get back into it but it's been like 15 yrs or so ... What is up with DCC stuff?

Hmmmm, DCC has been around for more than 15 years now. It is definitely no longer "new". But that is besides the point. Just don't let it be confusing. Think of it as simply a different power pack. When DCC is used with Atlas track one doesn't have to use insulated rail joiners, put in selector switches, and run special wires to each track block to run multiple trains. Just connect two wires from the DCC unit to the track and it is ready to run trains.

The two differences are the locomotives must have an on-board decoder to understand the DCC signal, and telephone wire is no longer sufficient. Get a bit heavier wire like 18 or 16 gauge to connect to the track.

From the factory all locomotives come set to channel 3, so your 2nd locomotive will have to be programmed to a different channel number. Most people try to use the locomotive number to be the channel number. Easy to remember that way. Programming will be the first DCC thing you actually have to "learn". Should be a major emphasis in the user manual of whichever system you choose.

As others have mentioned above the Number of a turnout is how sharp it is. The smaller the number the sharper the exit, and the bigger the number the more gentle it is. Generally, in this case, bigger is better, but space is usually more valuable. Atlas makes 4 sizes. A snap-switch that is slightly less than a #4 (avoide these), a custom line #4 (which is really a 4.75 and very usable for most small layouts), two type of #6, and a #8. The wye switch is unique because it has two departing tracks, so in the case of a wye switch the sharpness is 2 times the turnout angle. For example the Atlas wye switch is a #3, but it is equivalent to a normal #6 turnout.

 

[Krueger81]

Hmmmm, DCC has been around for more than 15 years now. It is definitely no longer "new". But that is besides the point. Just don't let it be confusing. Think of it as simply a different power pack. When DCC is used with Atlas track one doesn't have to use insulated rail joiners, put in selector switches, and run special wires to each track block to run multiple trains. Just connect two wires from the DCC unit to the track and it is ready to run trains.

The two differences are the locomotives must have an on-board decoder to understand the DCC signal, and telephone wire is no longer sufficient. Get a bit heavier wire like 18 or 16 gauge to connect to the track.

From the factory all locomotives come set to channel 3, so your 2nd locomotive will have to be programmed to a different channel number. Most people try to use the locomotive number to be the channel number. Easy to remember that way. Programming will be the first DCC thing you actually have to "learn". Should be a major emphasis in the user manual of whichever system you choose.

As others have mentioned above the Number of a turnout is how sharp it is. The smaller the number the sharper the exit, and the bigger the number the more gentle it is. Generally, in this case, bigger is better, but space is usually more valuable. Atlas makes 4 sizes. A snap-switch that is slightly less than a #4 (avoide these), a custom line #4 (which is really a 4.75 and very usable for most small layouts), two type of #6, and a #8. The wye switch is unique because it has two departing tracks, so in the case of a wye switch the sharpness is 2 times the turnout angle. For example the Atlas wye switch is a #3, but it is equivalent to a normal #6 turnout.

Very easy reading and put in "stupid people" terms thank you very much for the explanation that makes a lot of sense.

I was thinking Atlas track is the way to go. it looks the easiest to work with. I am thinking I am going to stick with pre-fabbed stuff vs. do it yourself kinda track since I am basically a newb!!!

TY again and keep the suggestions coming

Phil