Sound for DC layout

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A

adamsdp

Member
I have tsunami sound decoder from Soundtraxx and trying to decide which way to for off board sound on my dc 2' x 8' switching layout. The tsunami decoder only turns on when my MRC power pack gets to around 50% of full power and shuts off if the power drops <~35% which doesn't make it very useful for low speed operation. The options going forward I am considering are-

1. Try to somehow boost the voltage to the tsunami I have so that the baseline voltage is ~5 volts and have track power go up from there. I am thinking this may solve the problem of it not operating until it sees 5 volts.

2. Get a Kato Soundbox. This would seem to be an easy solution with perhaps better sound if I use external speakers but give up some automation of sounds.

3. Soundtraxx has a newish product called the Blunami that from speaking with Soundtraxx, could be set up in way that avoids the lower voltage issues and have a lot of control through a phone app. I am not as much of fan of apps and wireless connections from a simplicity standpoint though.

If there are other good options to consider, please let me know. I am not sure which way to go so any advice will be appreciated. Thank you.
 


migalyto said:
Why not just take the plunge into DCC?
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RhB Michael said:
Once you try and use DCC you'll wonder why it took so long to change over. You'll never go back to DC.
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I decided not to go with DCC after seeing how many headaches you folks that do run it have. Decoders dying on a regular basis, problems programming, etc. and the cost of converting my stable to DCC. Perhaps if I was more confident in my own wiring skills AND had a large layout, I would try it.
 
When I first started going to 'Rivercity Modelers' they were on the fence with DCC and at that time it was a hoop jump to get it to work. They were/are a bunch of old geezers with not much ( if any ) computer experience. Couple of years later, some new guys were found and they singled one out to handle DCC stuff. That guy also trained them the "how to's". Now they don't know how they lived without it. Cheat sheets abound near the programming track!

L8r
 
Deacon wrote:
"I decided not to go with DCC after seeing how many headaches you folks that do run it have."

I think you should reconsider.
And I'll explain why.

I was "out of" the model trains for 40 years, while I had a working life running "the big ones". Just another dumb old engineer.

Some years later into retirement, and in my late 60's, I decided to put together a small layout again, having cleaned out a spot in the basement for it.

So I started reading forums, looking at YouTube, etc.

I've always had Macs, but I'm not a super-geek or anything like that. I did have a good handle on the Mac OS, however. I never used Windows or DOS (before that) beyond just enough to find it a frustrating and confusing experience. But did GREAT with the Mac.

Told you that to tell you this:
Many of those folks you see in this forum (and others) are having problems because... well, because they chose the WRONG dcc system. (emphasis intentional)

A truth to know about dcc control systems:
Some are difficult to work with.
Others, much easier.
As this fellow says:
choose wisely.jpg

I took his advice. I made the right choice.

The foundation of that choice was to pick a dcc control system that used graphics instead of "pushbuttons". By doing this, you don't have to "know what each of the buttons mean", and which is the right one to use.

The ultimate in graphical control systems is the Roco z21 app.
The only problem with the z21 is that it's getting difficult to get Roco z21 HARDware here in the USA (for some reason they don't "see a market" here).
I got my z21start unit from Germany.

The z21 app also works with the Digikeijs DR5000. But Digikeijs is now out-of-business so the only ones you can find are used. I picked one up on ebay for the princely sum of $108. Still working great.

z21 also works with YaMoRC ("Yet Another Model RR Company"), but their stock is hard to find. Try Iron Planet Hobbies.

Having said all that, if you can't get the Roco, Digikeijs or YaMoRC hardware, the closest alternative is the VERY well-done and affordable DCC EX "CSB1" hardware.
Search on YouTube for videos.
The CSB1 also works with graphical controllers (phone or tablet), but I haven't tried any of them personally -- z21 app is "all I'll ever need".

The z21 app used in conjunction with the Roco and Digikeijs hardware had made dcc EASY for me. Same can be said about the JMRI app "Decoder Pro". I couldn't have progressed as far as I have without these hardware/software components.

Let me give you an example.
I've never run into an engine/decoder that I couldn't renumber in FIVE SECONDS.
Not a typo.
No buttons to push.
I just type in the engine number I want (from 1 to 9999), touch "program", and ... done.

So again, dcc can be easy, or... it can be hard.
The choice... is yours.
CHOOSE WISELY.
 
Back to the original question, I don’t think using a decoder on a dc layout will work that well if at all.
The Kato sound box may just be your best choice.

As for DCC being complicated… for a two by eight switching layout it’s just two wires to the track. Done.
Can’t see you needing multi unit ops or anything fancy and you can learn simple programming as you go.

Something else to look into is Railpro by Ring Engineering, it’s not DC or DCC and is extremely easy to use.
 
If your layout is set up for dc, converting to dcc requires little, if any modifications. The controller etc would be the big expense, along with equipping the locomotives with decoders.

I was of the “dc, I don’t need sound” campaign for awhile until I realized the benefit of going dcc. Now, the only time I use dc is to get a loco running properly before adding the decoder. Operating multiple locomotives in opposite directions has me hooked. A good quality decoder, properly installed, will not give you any problems, but stay away from the off brand discount ones. You get what you pay for.
 


If you really insist on staying with DC, and want sound, you can look at Kato's Soundbox. It has interchangeable modules to change the sounds it emits, but the Soundbox costs as much as a good basic DCC starter set, and the sound modules cost more than a basic decoder. With an 8' layout, it may be a viable option, depending on how many engines you have now, because it will work with all of them. It can be kind of jarring listening to an EMD 567 sound while running a steam switch engine, so more-or-less correct sound modules would be strongly recommended.
 
adamsdp said:
I have tsunami sound decoder from Soundtraxx and trying to decide which way to for off board sound on my dc 2' x 8' switching layout. The tsunami decoder only turns on when my MRC power pack gets to around 50% of full power and shuts off if the power drops <~35% which doesn't make it very useful for low speed operation.
Click to expand...
Yes all of that is just how DCC sound decoders work on DC.

adamsdp said:
1. Try to somehow boost the voltage to the tsunami I have so that the baseline voltage is ~5 volts and have track power go up from there. I am thinking this may solve the problem of it not operating until it sees 5 volts.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, interesting idea. I've never heard of anyone trying that. Really though how different is that from just putting a mark or block on the DC controller at the point it produces that much power? Then just don't turn the controller lower.
adamsdp said:
2. Get a Kato Soundbox. This would seem to be an easy solution with perhaps better sound if I use external speakers but give up some automation of sounds.

3. Soundtraxx has a newish product called the Blunami that from speaking with Soundtraxx, could be set up in way that avoids the lower voltage issues and have a lot of control through a phone app. I am not as much of fan of apps and wireless connections from a simplicity standpoint though.
Click to expand...
I am unfamiliar with either of those products.

adamsdp said:
If there are other good options to consider, please let me know. I am not sure which way to go so any advice will be appreciated. Thank you.
Click to expand...
You did not specify if you were talking about diesel, steam, or electric locomotives. For steam there are always the old PFM and Grizzly Mountain sound systems. They are exquisite if you can find one (on the used market as they have not been manufactured in decades), plus the price has been going through the roof lately.

For diesels and steam there are the old PBL sound systems. Likewise their price on ebay has been going up and up.

The top of the line sound for DC on-board was Phoenix Sound Systems. Intended for the larger scales but they could be wedged into an HO locomotive. I can't say they have gone out of business too, but last time I looked their website hadn't been updated in a while. I think the electronic supply chain issues during the covid era might have wiped them out. And once again the price for their stuff on the used market has also skyrocketed.

There were a few other companies that did DC sound back in the day, put in some "saved searches" for them on ebay and they will pop up occasionally,


As for "All the issues with DCC". Most of those are self inflicted by folks trying to do more than just run a train. My DCC experience (with a few exceptions) has been two wires to the track. Set throttle on #3. Run the train. Gets a tiny bit more complicated when adding the 2nd locomotive as it does have to be programmed (like 10 keystrokes), then I had to choose #3 or the new locomotive number before I can run the train. All the complications you are seeing is usually for massively large layouts, or people who do this thing call consisting, and speed matching, and blah blah blah. I ignore that stuff and don't have any of those problems.
 
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Iron Horseman said:
As for "All the issues with DCC". Most of those are self inflicted by folks trying to do more than just run a train. My DCC experience (with a few exceptions) has been two wires to the track. Set throttle on #3. Run the train. Gets a tiny bit more complicated when adding the 2nd locomotive as it does have to be programmed (like 10 keystrokes), then I had to choose #3 or the new locomotive number before I can run the train. All the complications you are seeing is usually for massively large layouts, or people who do this thing call consisting, and speed matching, and blah blah blah. I ignore that stuff and don't have any of those problems.
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Exactly. You can make DCC as easy or as complex as you like. For beginners, hooking up two wires to the track and selecting the locomotive from the controller doesn't get any easier. A ten year old can do that.

For me and others who like to get into the programming to change things, improve performance, change lighting or add lighting, consisting locomotives, add or subtract sounds, etc., it can be vastly complicated depending upon the system and what you are using to program the decoder, and what operation you are attempting. If you don't understand what you are doing, bad things can and do happen. The fix is as easy as entering CV8=8 and either start again or leave it alone.

Sound programming alteration is among the most advance programming for DCC there is, and I've only gotten my feet wet with those operations. Fortunately, there is not usually a need for altering sounds other than volume, or adjusting balances between sounds. I have had to adjust certain sound functions beyond this and was operating blind. But I learned how to do it.
 
Okay, to use 2 different examples, an older HO Roundhouse locomotive from kit and a current Kato N scale steam locomotive. What is the simplest way to install a decoder without sound? Just to run a simple set up for a beginner.
 
The older Roundhouse kit is going to be more involved mechanically and electrically than popping in a decoder in an available socket in the Kato

That is assuming the newer Kato is DCC ready. If so, purchase the decoder with the appropriate pin-out header, and push it into the header.

To install in an older locomotive requires that the motor case be insulated from the chassis if it is not already. Motor wires are soldered to the decoder at the indicated contacts on the decoder, and then wires from each of the trucks are soldered to the decoder. Decoders purchased ala carte have a wiring diagram included so as long as you can solder, you can install a basic decoder.
 
Before I went dcc, I purchased a BlueRail board and installed it on my dc layout. BlueRail is the creator of Bluenami decoders marketed by soundtraxx. The BlueRail setup allowed me to run multiple locomotives off my phone but the sound was at the board using speakers and not on the individual locomotives. For me, it was a stepping stone before going dcc. I doubt that this is the answer you’re looking for.
 
Rico said:
Back to the original question, I don’t think using a decoder on a dc layout will work that well if at all.
The Kato sound box may just be your best choice.

As for DCC being complicated… for a two by eight switching layout it’s just two wires to the track. Done.
Can’t see you needing multi unit ops or anything fancy and you can learn simple programming as you go.

Something else to look into is Railpro by Ring Engineering, it’s not DC or DCC and is extremely easy to use.
Click to expand...
Thank you and I ordered the Kato sound box. I will check out the Railpro and probably going to get a Blunami installed on one of my locomotives to give it a try. The Kato sound box seems to be well liked based the youtube video's I watched so hopefully will be a good addition.
 
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