Some Questions

[Chemdawg]

I'm new to this forum, but not EXACTLY new to the hobby. I have had probably a 30 year hiatus from this though. I pulled out all my old train stuff from when I was a kid, and decided to get started again. I purchased several sets from Bachmann, to get started with, and am trying to make heads or tails out of what I had from before.

So with this being said, here are my questions....

One of my new sets came with DCC enabled. It is Bachmann kit #00501. I also purchased another kit that came with a smaller steam 0-6-0 loco, and several cars.

As of now, before I start working on my own layout, I want to get all of my cars on the same sheet of music. One thing I noticed on the OLDER cars, is that the couplers are not connected directly to the chassis of the car. They are all connected right to the Rollers. (Excuse the vocab) I want to convert my older cars over to the standard body mount couplers. So with this being said, what do I need to purchase for EZmate couplers that I can accomplish this with? One car in particular is a Boom and Tender setup Bachmann #1437. I thought I could just purchase the coupler from Bachmann that would be a direct replacement for the old ones, but I don't see one.

Also, on many of my new cars, and all of the old ones, I'm using the plastic wheel setups. I want to go to the metal, but which one is standard? The 36" or the 33"? I believe all of my cars that are on metal rollers are 33", but I want to make sure.

For now I am going to get my cars all sorted out, then start working on a basic layout, and expand over time. Not sure what direction I'm going in yet, but between this forum, and my other sources, I hope it will be something good. I am working on a collection of cars and loco's as we speak, and will learn all the techniques over time for weathering etc......

Thanks for the info in advance.

CHEM

 

[Selector]

One of the first things to verify is the depth of the flanges, those circular blades that run around the inner tire surfaces of the wheels on your rolling stock. If they are more than about a 1/16th inch deep, they are older wheels that do not comply with the more modern (and accepted) RP-25 standard for HO scale wheels put out by the National Model Rifle...I mean Railroad Association. We call those older profile wheels "pizza cutter wheels". If you have Code 100 rails in those kits, and I'm quite sure you do, you are okay. If you find you'd rather run on more prototypical rails, the kind you'd expect to see in the real world on sidings and industrial spurs and such, you should be considering installing Code 70 rails. The code means nothing more than the height of the metal rails in thousandths of an inch. Code 100 works out to about 165 pounds of steel per yard of rail, much heavier than any ever used by any railroad extant or in the past. Many like Code 83, but it still comes out to about 145 pound rail, and is not really representative of anything except very heavily traveled freight lines with 100 ton coal hoppers in long strings.

Your best way ahead for the couplers is to install Kadee metal #5 or the whisker #158 perhaps. If the way they are mounted now is a bother, you'd have to cut off the mounts and install Kadee coupler boxes on the frames and sills...quite a bit of work. The better rolling stock sold these days has body-mounted couplers. The EZ-Mates are not generally well regarded because they are plastic (I'm pretty sure) and their closure mechanism is not durable. When we talk of improving couplers on cars, there are two realistic choices these days...Kadee and all its many useful variants, or Sargeant.

Wheel sets? Get a bag of each from Intermountain or Kadee or Proto 2000. Buying them in bulk is a chunk of change, but it's a good way to go about improving a substantial fleet. As well, the diameter of the wheels is one thing, not such a big deal...it's the length of the axle and the distance between those points. It is also important to have the right type of axle end.

Last bit and then I'll let someone else chime in...get The Tool from Micro Mark. It is a spinnable metal spindle with pointed ends that you use to ream out the bearing journals inside your trucks. The trucks are what you meant when you talked about the rollers. One end of this small ream is actually a sharp blade to do the reaming. It is important as a tool. So is the NMRA gauge, a small flat sheet of stainless steel that has several useful measuring gauges to help you to see problems in running performance.

Crandell

 

[trailrider]

Checking the flanges is a good idea. You should get an NMRA wheel/track gage which will measure a number of things, including the depth of the flanges. Replacing the wheel sets on each truck is a good idea. Kadee wheelsets won't get out of gage the way some of the plasic and metal ones do. OTOH, as long as the wheel gage (distance between the wheels on the axles) check out okay, I'd leave them alone. As to wheel diameters, in general pre-1970's era freight cars used 33" diameter wheels and passenger cars 36" diameter. You can get both from Kadee, or one of the other brands mentioned. More modern, heavy capacity (100 ton) hoppers tend to have 36" wheels, so it will depend on the era you are modelling and the cars you have.

Replacing truck-mounted couplers with body-mounted isn't that hard, but can be a bit tedious, depending on how much rolling stock you have left from previous efforts. The main problem with truck-mounted couplers comes when you attempt to back up, especially around curves. This is even worse with passenger cars, but body-mounting couplers on passenger cars is more difficult because the longer cars (72-85 scale feet) have more overhang, and require more swing in the coupler shank.

 

[galaxy]

Question:
you say you purchased BAchmann trains set #00501 which contains two DCC equiped locos, and a Bachmann EZ Command DCC controller. GOod CHoice. {I have two Bachmann EZ COmmand DCC controllers and several Bachmann DCC onBoard locos. THey are great}.
But my question is this: are you going with DCC now, or are you going to stick with DC for your older equipment? Or are you going to convert your old DC locos to DCC? The other loco set is not DCC either, will you convert it?

I would NOT try mixing DC and DCC though you can with the EZC. You can run a DC loco on spot #10 if you want, but you can also fry things if you are trying to run DC and DCC together and are not careful. Too many on the forums have lamented frying their system or locos by accidentally mixing up the two.

Going DCC Only is a good choice, I would personally stick with it.I love it. When I got back into the hobby 4.5 years ago from N scale, I jumped in feet first to cheapy Bachmann DC sets in HO cuz I wanted HO. I bought 2 more locos before I decided upon reading aobut it that I wanted DCC. I haven't looked back since. Far less wiring than DC and you control the loco, not the track current to move the locos.

Changing your wheels to metal sounds like a good idea, it can help you get rid of deep flange wheels if you have them, and chanigng the couplers is also a good idea especially if they are older horn hook couplers,, though some would argue you should choose KaDee couplers over Bachmann's EZMATE. I have yet to have EZ Mates fail, but I don't pull long trains either.

GOod luck, welcome back to the hobby and HAve fun!
________
Alaska Medical Marijuana Dispensary

 

[scibiz]

Interesting. I am the same as you, just getting back.

But I took a deep breath and went DCC. Also, quality is important and I prefer Proto and MTH engines based on my buying and testing a variety of stuff. The Bachmann cars are okay. You can buy what you need on E Bay not too expensive, often new.

 

[funnelfan]

Here are some answers


>So with this being said, here are my questions....

>One of my new sets came with DCC enabled. It is Bachmann kit #00501. I also purchased another kit that came with a smaller steam 0-6-0 loco, and several cars. <

DCC is Digital Command Control, and allows you to run two or more trains independently on the same track with no special wiring (on the layout at least). Locomotives are often sold with and without decoders, and they will be labeled DCC equipped and DCC ready respectively. DCC ready means the unit doesn't have a decoder, but has a plug that allows a proper decoder to be plugged in (often a 8-pin NMRA plug, but sometimes including a in-line 9 pin connector as well). Most decoder equipped units will also run on DC, but that feature can be turned on or off. But to operate a Decoder equipped locomotive in DCC mode, you need a DCC control system. I would steer clear of the Bachmann System which is very limited and look at Digitrax and NCE (North Coast Engineering) when you go that route. But for now DC will work for you until you are ready to go DCC.

>As of now, before I start working on my own layout, I want to get all of my cars on the same sheet of music. One thing I noticed on the OLDER cars, is that the couplers are not connected directly to the chassis of the car. They are all connected right to the Rollers. (Excuse the vocab) I want to convert my older cars over to the standard body mount couplers.<

Ok, a little Jargon lesson. A coupler is holds the cars together. Old couplers on older equipment are known as "horn-hook couplers" (also called NMRA and X2F couplers). More modern couplers that look and operate like the prototype are known as "knuckle couplers". Each axle with a pair of wheels is known as a "wheelset". The structure that holds the wheelsets is known as a "truck". Most trucks are of a two axle variety, but some only have one, while others can have 3 or even on a rare occasion 4 axles (British call trucks "bogies"). On older cars where the coupler is attached to the trucks are known as "talgo trucks". It's a good idea to stay way from cars like those as you seem to be finding out. Talgo truck equipped cars are much more prone to derailments. Converting those cars to body mount couplers is a huge pain, and requires quite a bit of effort (read; sell them, and buy better cars).

> So with this being said, what do I need to purchase for EZmate couplers that I can accomplish this with? One car in particular is a Boom and Tender setup Bachmann #1437. I thought I could just purchase the coupler from Bachmann that would be a direct replacement for the old ones, but I don't see one. <

Most of us will advise you to steer clear of plastic couplers which tend to bend or break, and go with the time honored Kadee #5 metal couplers. While they are a bit more expensive, they will save you a ton of headaches. The #5 kit also contains parts to use their couplers in talgo trucks, which will help if you are set on keeping a talgo trucked car.


Also, on many of my new cars, and all of the old ones, I'm using the plastic wheel setups. I want to go to the metal, but which one is standard? The 36" or the 33"? I believe all of my cars that are on metal rollers are 33", but I want to make sure.

Metal wheelsets are the way to go, and will help keep track clean and have fewer derailments. I love the Intermountain wheelsets which feature a metal axle and roll very easily. For your purposes, you can just go with the 33" which are the most common. Prototype car wheels range in size, with 28", 33", 36" and 40" being the most common.

>For now I am going to get my cars all sorted out, then start working on a basic layout, and expand over time. Not sure what direction I'm going in yet, but between this forum, and my other sources, I hope it will be something good. I am working on a collection of cars and loco's as we speak, and will learn all the techniques over time for weathering etc......

Thanks for the info in advance.<

No problem, ask a question and you will get some answers. A final bit of advise would be to buy a coupler height gauge and shim washers from Kadee. Check your cars against the gauge to make sure the coupler heights are all about the same. Mismatched coupler heights leads to trains separating all the time as couplers slip apart.

 

[DoubleDAZ]

On older cars where the coupler is attached to the trucks are known as "talgo trucks". It's a good idea to stay way from cars like those as you seem to be finding out. Talgo truck equipped cars are much more prone to derailments. Converting those cars to body mount couplers is a huge pain, and requires quite a bit of effort (read; sell them, and buy better cars).

So what you are saying is the Bachmann Empire Builder set I bought was basically a waste of money. The Northern 4-8-4 stinks (as some others have said) and the caboose with body-mounted couplers consistly derails any car in front of it with truck-mounted couplers (every other car in the set). I do like the E-Z Tracks though, but I am frustrated I have to use a 30+ yr old diesel I got at Kay Bee Toys back in the 70's in order to even run around an oval.

 

[Chemdawg]

Wow. Because of the holidays, I wasn't able to get on here much. I really appreciate all the responses, and I will be keeping notes of all of it. Thanks again!!!

 

[scibiz]

> So with this being said, what do I need to purchase for EZmate couplers that I can accomplish this with? One car in particular is a Boom and Tender setup Bachmann #1437. I thought I could just purchase the coupler from Bachmann that would be a direct replacement for the old ones, but I don't see one. <

Most of us will advise you to steer clear of plastic couplers which tend to bend or break, and go with the time honored Kadee #5 metal couplers. While they are a bit more expensive, they will save you a ton of headaches. The #5 kit also contains parts to use their couplers in talgo trucks, which will help if you are set on keeping a talgo trucked car.

___________________

What do you think of EZ Mate magnetic couplers ?

 

[Cjcrescent]

Here are some answers...

Also, on many of my new cars, and all of the old ones, I'm using the plastic wheel setups. I want to go to the metal, but which one is standard? The 36" or the 33"? I believe all of my cars that are on metal rollers are 33", but I want to make sure.

Which wheels are standard depends on how much the cars weigh when they are loaded. Most modern cars, except for specialty cars like spines, and auto max, etc. carry loads of 100 tons nominally. These cars would have 36" wheels. Cars that when loaded were 70 tons or less would use 33".

The specialty cars like the spines etc, can have wheels of 28" to 33". Some even have 36".

 

[trailrider]

Most passenger cars, especially the heavyweights and streamliners from the 1920's through the '60's rode on 36" diameter wheels. Way-old-timer shorty passenger cars, with open end platforms might use 33" or even smaller.

I concur with going to Kaydee couplers. Even if you later acquire equipment with other makes (except for NRMA hook-horn), most will be compatible with Kaydee's.