Should I go with DCC

[timlange3]

With DCC you will quickly find out how well your frogs are gapped! Just a hint of a short circuit will cause a DCC shutdown. Buy the DCC system that has the throttle you like the best, it is the thing you will be holding and using all the time. You may want to run multiple trains from one throttle. Is wireless (radio/IR) throttles a need? DC puts 12vdc on the rails, DCC will put 18vac on the rails. If you currently have blocks, set them all to the same PS and that is where your DCC PS will be.

 

[TrinityJayOne]

Welcome to the forums!

Bugger about the decoders, hope they weren't expensive ones! The choice is yours as to what to buy but I personally stick with TCS decoders. They're priced at the high end of the scale for non-sound decoders but their performance is stellar. They have a feature called Back EMF (or just BEMF) that will make even a turd run like brand new. They also have a 1yr "goof-proof" warranty where they'll replace a decoder free of charge regardless of how you break it.

Anyhoo, the releasing of magic smoke can be avoided by using the programming track feature of your chosen system. It's a brute force programming method, that is rather than addressing a particular loco it sends commands to everything on the rails. The main feature though is that it doesn't send full voltage to the tracks, only enough to program the decoder. If you've stuffed something up then the programming track mode will identify this without any magic smoke. I use NCE myself so I can't tell you how to safely test an install with a Digitrax system, however I'm sure someone else here can.


As for the problems encountered, the 2nd one would've been caused by something other than what you described. If the motor is wired backwards (or the decoder is, same thing really) your loco will just go in the wrong direction (forward = reverse, etc), and this is easily fixed by a simple CV adjustment anyway. In fact I have a loco where the decoder goes in backwards as part of a normal installation! (N scale Athearn F45)

For the first issue, you must be especially careful when adding decoders to locos that weren't designed for it (known as "hardwiring" the decoder). Crandell/Selector already said it but here it is again-

To succeed with decoders, the decoders must get power directly from each rail, and the brushes of the motors can only get power from the decoder's motor outputs. The brushes cannot have any contact with the frame if it is part of the circuit, as an example. Anything else and you can enjoy the odor of the magic smoke that will issue forthwith from said decoder.

This cannot be stressed enough. When in doubt, don't risk it! Kapton tape is an essential item for DCC installs, even with some newer DCC ready locos. *glares at Kato*

 

[robermv32]

Now for chapter two. I installed a TCS-T1 and a Digitrax SFX004 soundbug in my Athearn Bluebox GP38-2. The install was done in stages and tested on the program track at each level. T1 in checked on the program track at address 03. motor worked fine. Back to the bench and installed the Soundbug. Back on the programming track and changed the address to the engine road number 4080. Motor and sound OK. Added LED lights for directional control. Program track....All OK. Very Happy. Finished all wiring by applying Liquid rubber and securing in place with Electrical Tape. Placed the engine on the layout and the first time I selected it, I got NO SOUND, and very sporatic movement. Back to the programming track and when I powered it up the engine "ran away" with no sound. I"ve disconnected the soundbug and readdressed the engine to "03". Now, it's working again. I've checked the wires for shorts but find none...WHAT is up?

 

[Cjcrescent]

... Back to the programming track and when I powered it up the engine "ran away" with no sound. I"ve disconnected the soundbug and readdressed the engine to "03". Now, it's working again. I've checked the wires for shorts but find none...WHAT is up?

I think that your problem may be associated with CV29. Have you turned off the analog/DCC bit? This allows the loco, if left in the on position, to sense DC voltage, and run on that. Many loco's in the past that would "runaway" would sense the sudden spike of voltage as a DC current and take off, esp when first placed on a DCC layout, as the DCC layout has a constant voltage on it.

I looked up the CV table for both TCS and Digitrax. For CV29, change it to 034. (If you want to be able to use speed tables for speed matching, change it to 050.) This will allow 4 things. The normal direction of travel, or the NDOT, will be forward, speed steps will be 28/128, analog mode, being able to run on a DC layout, is turned OFF, and lastly it will allow for 4-digit addressing.

I don't think that the soundbug is bad. If it is anything like the sound decoder I have from Digitrax, it has pretty much the same CV's as a regular decoder. I would check the soundbug to see if there is a CV29 in it, and if there is change it to match the motor decoder. I would also check the address for the soundbug, and make sure that it matches the T-1.

I hope this little bit of research and my own experiences helped you some.

 

[Cjcrescent]

Side note Robermv, I just re-read the thread, and discovered that you have a DB150. The only problem with this is you can't read what the CVs are. So all programming is done "blind". In this case, I would still make the changes I recommended, but you won't be able to check them.

Since it is a DB-150, and having the ability to read the CV values not just being able to change them, might I recommend that you look at obtaining a Digitrax PR-3. It is a free standing, meaning it doesn't need to be connected to anything, programmer. It will allow you to read back the CV's and change them when needed. It will need a separate power supply. With this setup, you can have a short piece of track on your workbench, etc. and not even have to place the loco on the layout for programming.

I would also get a programming booster to go with this, but only if you're going to have sound equipped locos, equipped with other than the soundbug. The one I use is the PTB-100 from Soundtraxx. While the MSRP on both of these items is around $150, the street price from many online dealers will be below this. Its alot cheaper than having to buy a new command station, just to be able to read the CV's.

The advantage to buying these is you can also download a program called JMRI/a Java based program, and its known as DecoderPro. It also have two other modules wit it called Panel Pro, for setting up a control panel on your computer, and a module called Sound Pro. This one lets you really fine tune different aspects of the sounds. Its a FREE download from http://jmri.sourceforge.net/, and it allows you to make all kinds of programming changes to almost any kind of decoder on the market. After you make the changes, you can save those changes as a separate file just for that loco. If you ever replace the decoder in that loco with the same model decoder, you can then just download those CV values directly into the decoder.

I do a lot of decoder installs for our local LHS, and this makes programming the locos so much easier than trying to program with a throttle. Plus I have a file on each and every one of them, in case I ever have to reprogram any one of them.

 

[Metro Red Line]

you wil go DCC. The only question you should be asking is "When should I go DCC?"

 

[blackz28]

ok yea gotta take pics of your layout im dieing to see it

 

[robermv32]

It's been awhile and I have some updates. The post warning me about the hand-laid turnouts proved to be accurate. I had to remove them and replace them with commercial ones. I've since removed...well, lets say that I'm rebuilding the majority of my layout to facilitate the DCC. I've purchase the PR-3 per suggestion of another post and it is working fine..wonderful when you can see what you're doing. I've converted most of my fleet over to DCC and love it. When I finish with the scenery I'll post some pictures. Thanks again to all those who rendered assistance.

 

[Iron Horseman]

It's been awhile and I have some updates. The post warning me about the hand-laid turnouts proved to be accurate. I had to remove them and replace them with commercial ones.

Why is that? I've used hand-laid turnouts with command control for three decades with no issues. Our club layout has hundreds of them. Since you've already converted it is an academic question but I am still curious.

 

[montanan]

It's been awhile and I have some updates. The post warning me about the hand-laid turnouts proved to be accurate. I had to remove them and replace them with commercial ones. I've since removed...well, lets say that I'm rebuilding the majority of my layout to facilitate the DCC. I've purchase the PR-3 per suggestion of another post and it is working fine..wonderful when you can see what you're doing. I've converted most of my fleet over to DCC and love it. When I finish with the scenery I'll post some pictures. Thanks again to all those who rendered assistance.

I was warned about the possibilities of DCC not working with hand laid turnouts and you have unfortunately shown that there could be a problem. Being that I have close to 50 hand laid turnouts, the time and expense of replacing these turnouts added to the expense of the purchase of a DCC control system and then the time and money to install decoders have cured me.

 

[robermv32]

Why is that? I've used hand-laid turnouts with command control for three decades with no issues. Our club layout has hundreds of them. Since you've already converted it is an academic question but I am still curious.

My only answer to this question is that, While I was creating the turnouts, not all have the issue by the way, and only the "offenders" have been removed, I must have built in some clearance problems. I've only replaced 12 of the 30 or so. It was my first attempt at hand laying track so I chaulk it up to a learning expierence.