Shelf Layout Building

[catnippertom]

Hello all, I am back from the dead. The In-Between Layouts Layout only lived for a few days in its completed form. It didn't even receive a name by the time I had to tear it down and pack it up. Now that I have a whole new hobby room, I can begin planning the new layout. I have to cram all my interests into this room, but I'm happy to do it. Now the space isn't solely dedicated to trains, but I do have a bit of space to work with. Here is what we are working with:

It is looking like the layout space is about 6'10" x 9'. From there, I know nothing else about what I want to do. If you guys want to draw up some layout ideas, feel free to send them my way. I would love to see what some armchair engineers can come up with! I am going to slowly planning what I want to do in the future. It might be a long process since funds for the house are going to take precedence over the layout. But it should be fun to plan and tweak things.

Anyway, that is all to report for now. Hopefully I'll be back with some ideas.

 

[ctclibby]

Hello all, I am back from the dead. The In-Between Layouts Layout only lived for a few days in its completed form. It didn't even receive a name by the time I had to tear it down and pack it up. Now that I have a whole new hobby room, I can begin planning the new layout. I have to cram all my interests into this room, but I'm happy to do it. Now the space isn't solely dedicated to trains, but I do have a bit of space to work with. Here is what we are working with:
View attachment 225436View attachment 225437
It is looking like the layout space is about 6'10" x 9'. From there, I know nothing else about what I want to do. If you guys want to draw up some layout ideas, feel free to send them my way. I would love to see what some armchair engineers can come up with! I am going to slowly planning what I want to do in the future. It might be a long process since funds for the house are going to take precedence over the layout. But it should be fun to plan and tweak things.

Anyway, that is all to report for now. Hopefully I'll be back with some ideas.

Will the Racing Sim fit between the closet and entrance? Could expand your horizon's.

L8r

 

[diesel]

Do you need/want to use the window? In any case, I recommend sticking to a shelf layout on whatever walls you can clear up.

 

[catnippertom]

Will the Racing Sim fit between the closet and entrance? Could expand your horizon's.

L8r

It is a bit too big to fit there. Plus, there aren't spaces to plug in the sim on that wall. It would make for a hideous cable setup. It would also hinder the use of the closet and the walkway through the room. But good thought!

 

[catnippertom]

Do you need/want to use the window? In any case, I recommend sticking to a shelf layout on whatever walls you can clear up.

Shelf layout is a great idea. I do like continuous running, so that could be a challenge, but I am going to think about that when drawing things up

 

[diesel]

Continuous running, you could do a dogbone with one loop on top of the monitor/cabinet part of the racing rig. Other end by the bathroom door. 54" might clear the monitor.

 

[catnippertom]

Here is a rough outline of my current thoughts.

I have a rough outline on the floor of what I'm starting to picture. On SCARM, I have created a bit of a more robust version that could happen. From the first image, you can see on the wall that I am planning on having a single line of track circumnavigate the racing sim(represented by the foam stuck to the wall). I don't want to do any scenery on that section since I just want that to be extra room to run for the train. It is going to be 2 - 3 inches wide. Something I have always wanted, ever since I was a kid, was to have a train go around the room or even pop out from behind things or through walls. I think that section behind the monitor will scratch that itch. I so far have 2 lift-up bridges planned. Those should help with ease of moving around the room.

In the SCARM plan, I have the main base of the layout outlined. I am not in love with having a huge table set up, though, so I might want to work on that a bit. I also have a spur that I plan on having go under the main deck to have staging somewhere. I do need to figure out where industries are going since I do want to have at least 2. I love running passenger trains, though, so the main focus of the layout is continuous passenger running with some switching. I also want to have an engine storage yard where I can display some of my models. I am going to have to figure out all of this, and really, what I want to do.

I'd love to hear what you guys think and what you think I am doing wrong. I would love to solve some problems and learn as much as I can.

 

[RhB Michael]

The crossing loop is going to be a very steep effective grade to clear the lower track. Effective grade is the effect of rise combined with friction and drag from the curve. It varies with radius, but it can be a significant factor in the number of wagons your locomotive can pull.

The grades on my mainlines are 2.5%, but with the radius of curves it bumps that to a bit over 5%. The Rhätische Bahn meter gauge spur is 7% in spots. That is normal for this railroad and locomotives have no problem with the length of trains used on this spur, but that is the exception.

 

[catnippertom]

The crossing loop is going to be a very steep effective grade to clear the lower track. Effective grade is the effect of rise combined with friction and drag from the curve. It varies with radius, but it can be a significant factor in the number of wagons your locomotive can pull.

The grades on my mainlines are 2.5%, but with the radius of curves it bumps that to a bit over 5%. The Rhätische Bahn meter gauge spur is 7% in spots. That is normal for this railroad and locomotives have no problem with the length of trains used on this spur, but that is the exception.

That’s something I’ve been trying to work out. With the way the outer loop runs, I’d either have to cross the double track or find an alternative way down, which could be tricky. I’m currently testing an extended loop to help reduce the grade.

 

[diesel]

Okay, just because you invited criticism. A big stand out, the track plan clearly follows the benchwork outline, the loops are rectangles with rounded corners squeezed onto the platform. While this uses the space most efficiently, it doesn't make sense scenically because it draws attention to the rectangle shape which you would never see in reality. It also may hamper the natural placement of industries, roads and buildings that you may decide to add later. Your huge platform has an underutilized center area that will also be difficult to reach, which may be problematic whether or not you add tracks there.

I suggest re-imagining the track plan without the cookie cutter straights and perfect 90 degree curves with no easements. It's feasible to do a large table, but it's often done with lift out scenic sections in the middle so you can maintain it. Edit- actually, it is difficult to lay flex track without easements simply because it is continuous and so can't make an instant transition from straight to curve. This can lead to unwelcome surprises when you lay the track, unless the easements are already figured in.

Also the outer loop spanning the room with two liftouts, again while adding track, lacks an obvious path to making a halfway convincing right of way, and introduces possible major problems with support, especially as you appear to be building on a thick carpet floor.

If I had to put it in a few words, "less is more".
I hope you don't mind the crit.

 

[catnippertom]

Okay, just because you invited criticism. A big stand out, the track plan clearly follows the benchwork outline, the loops are rectangles with rounded corners squeezed onto the platform. While this uses the space most efficiently, it doesn't make sense scenically because it draws attention to the rectangle shape which you would never see in reality. It also may hamper the natural placement of industries, roads and buildings that you may decide to add later. Your huge platform has an underutilized center area that will also be difficult to reach, which may be problematic whether or not you add tracks there.

I suggest re-imagining the track plan without the cookie cutter straights and perfect 90 degree curves with no easements. It's feasible to do a large table, but it's often done with lift out scenic sections in the middle so you can maintain it. Edit- actually, it is difficult to lay flex track without easements simply because it is continuous and so can't make an instant transition from straight to curve. This can lead to unwelcome surprises when you lay the track, unless the easements are already figured in.

Also the outer loop spanning the room with two liftouts, again while adding track, lacks an obvious path to making a halfway convincing right of way, and introduces possible major problems with support, especially as you appear to be building on a thick carpet floor.

If I had to put it in a few words, "less is more".
I hope you don't mind the crit.

I appreciate the thoughts! These are all great things that I have been thinking about.

The track that I am using is Bachmann EZ Track, so the meandering track becomes a bit harder with uniform track pieces that I have confined myself to. I am trying to add a story reason for why the track spans the room, probably due to a station being serviced on the island on the closet wall.

The baseboard is also not 100%. I am going to round out the layout once I have a better plan in mind. At this moment, I am just visualizing the space I have with the large rectangle.

Thanks for the comment. It helps a lot with the thought process of designing this layout!

 

[catnippertom]

With all of the suggestions, here is the current edit that I am on:

I edited the layout to remove the heavy grade created by the downhill spiral. I am not married to the location of the yard since it hinders a second loop. I want to be able to run multiple trains, so a smaller inside loop would be nice to have. I might have to get rid of the yard idea. Maybe a staging yard under the layout would be a better idea. I need to research how to build yards out of EZ Track. I want to have 2 stations and a yard for the trains(maybe a turn table/roundhouse too). I do want an industry, too, but I might have to compromise with that. Essentially, I am still not sure what I want and am still experimenting.

Still, I would love to hear what you guys think! Let me know what I should be figuring out and focusing on.

 

[diesel]

The traditional way to do easements in section track is to use different radii - for example going from straight to 18" is:
straight -> straight -> 22" curve -> 18" curve -> 18" curve and so on...

 

[catnippertom]

The traditional way to do easements in section track is to use different radii - for example going from straight to 18" is:
straight -> straight -> 22" curve -> 18" curve -> 18" curve and so on...

Easements are great ways to achieve realistic and smoother operations within a layout. I am using Bachmann EZ Track for my layout, which proves to be a challenge at times, especially when getting the turn radius correct. Realism isn't a huge priority to me, especially when this train is going to break the 4th wall by going around the room.

 

[diesel]

Bachmann does make the track sections in different radiuses. Planning with easements would actually be easier with sectional track than with flex track, if you do it by laying down the sections on the actual benchwork when it's built. It isn't just about realism. The couplers work better with easements. You will also see more realistic movement of the train when it takes a curve but if you don't care about that you could just consider it as a bonus.

If you mean, making the ends line up, if all curves follow the same pattern using the same radius it should work. Actually, you already have a situation with the track going off table, where the ends may or may not coincide exactly at the same angle at the join. So you may need some adjustment sections to do that.

 

[Canalligator]

What is the overall area that you have available? You show proposed track off the rectangle, is the available area the screen size? I recommend drawing a scale box representing the available area, and adding to trackage from there.

Then, I’d ditch the rectangle altogether. To me, starting with a rectangular table has a number of disadvantages. A large central area is hard to reach, to build or maintain, and hard for viewers to enjoy or for you to operate. And it looks like you’re planning to build off the box anyway. Make a clean sheet scale drawing of your usable area (is it a room?) then fit in the plan type you want. Do you want a loop? Out and back? Combination of those? A loop can run around the perimeter, or can be squished into a “folded dogbone” or figure eight. Maybe you can make that original table into a peninsula, so it’s all reachable and viewable.

Here’s something to consider when you have a basic plan, and are tweaking the design. Don’t run tracks strictly parallel to the benchwork sides. Putting tracks at a mild angle from the edge gives a lot more interesting visuals. And if you must put a track near an edge, plan on putting a piece of clear plastic along it. Rolling stock on the floor, not happy.

 

[diesel]

My first layout had 2 parallel tracks round a 4x8' table. 2 crossovers and a siding. It did follow the edges far too much, but I thought that the basic design could work acceptably on a 5x9'. If I did it again, I would do it with scenic lift outs in the middle for access. Seems to me you have room for that. I would forget the around the room arrangement and concentrate everything in that corner.

When you build into that corner, you can't walk around it. So access will be a big issue unless you plan for it.

One more "Robert DeNiro as life coach" thing LOL. So it's a little tongue in cheek, but - put away the layout software for heaven's sake! Just spend some time in the room with a sketch pad and visualize different ideas in 3d. Bring your favourite beverage if that helps... layout software is great for track design, not so great for getting a good concept going...

 

[catnippertom]

What is the overall area that you have available? You show proposed track off the rectangle, is the available area the screen size? I recommend drawing a scale box representing the available area, and adding to trackage from there.

Then, I’d ditch the rectangle altogether. To me, starting with a rectangular table has a number of disadvantages. A large central area is hard to reach, to build or maintain, and hard for viewers to enjoy or for you to operate. And it looks like you’re planning to build off the box anyway. Make a clean sheet scale drawing of your usable area (is it a room?) then fit in the plan type you want. Do you want a loop? Out and back? Combination of those? A loop can run around the perimeter, or can be squished into a “folded dogbone” or figure eight. Maybe you can make that original table into a peninsula, so it’s all reachable and viewable.

Here’s something to consider when you have a basic plan, and are tweaking the design. Don’t run tracks strictly parallel to the benchwork sides. Putting tracks at a mild angle from the edge gives a lot more interesting visuals. And if you must put a track near an edge, plan on putting a piece of clear plastic along it. Rolling stock on the floor, not happy.

Yeah, the track on the outside of the rectangle goes around my racing sim. Check out the first few posts in the thread to see what I am working with there. I don't plan on having those sections really be anything other than track. I just want to watch the train go around the room over there. What is planned over there is what I imagine is going to happen. The only real hang-up for me is what to do with the rectangular area.

On to the rectangle, it is just an outline of the space that I have available. I am trying not to get hung up on the confines of a rectangle, but it gets a bit difficult. I really would want to do an around-the-room setup. Maybe the peninsula idea is one I should play with a bit more. I think that could work well!

These conversations are exactly why I am asking the forum. Thanks for your input!

 

[catnippertom]

My first layout had 2 parallel tracks round a 4x8' table. 2 crossovers and a siding. It did follow the edges far too much, but I thought that the basic design could work acceptably on a 5x9'. If I did it again, I would do it with scenic lift outs in the middle for access. Seems to me you have room for that. I would forget the around the room arrangement and concentrate everything in that corner.

When you build into that corner, you can't walk around it. So access will be a big issue unless you plan for it.

One more "Robert DeNiro as life coach" thing LOL. So it's a little tongue in cheek, but - put away the layout software for heaven's sake! Just spend some time in the room with a sketch pad and visualize different ideas in 3d. Bring your favourite beverage if that helps... layout software is great for track design, not so great for getting a good concept going...

I do resonate with the last point. I would love to put the software down! It infuriates me most of the time. The big thing is it lets me plan before I go spend a bunch of cash on track. It also lets me run some rudimentary ops to get a feel for how things look and ride. It is too useful in my case.

I think as long as I take the time to really hammer out a good idea of what the track layout can look like, I can then work on tweaking it even more to make it better down the line. For now though, SCARM has to be my best friend!

 

[catnippertom]

Working on the railroad:

As recommended by diesel:

put away the layout software for heaven's sake! Just spend some time in the room with a sketch pad and visualize different ideas in 3d. Bring your favourite beverage if that helps... layout software is great for track design, not so great for getting a good concept going...

I printed out my room layout and sketched out some ideas that were better than what I had before. I have been playing a lot of the game Railroader to get inspiration for the railway, as it's a great way to gather realistic operational ideas. I am still sketching stuff out, but I think this is a better concept than what I had.

What do you guys think?